Jul -- General Chat: Manga/Anime: I'm alone to dislike them <:(

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Posted on 06-20-10 01:49:03 PM

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Originally posted by Conte de Contis
But it is something of undenidable: many people don't apprecciate the classics and watch only anime.

Those are what are called "idiots."

Especially those who have catgirls, multiple monster (a possible rip-off of Pokemon), fights (a possible rip-off of Dragon Ball (don't forget there is also the first DB, not only DBZ)),

Catgirls aren't in every anime.
Monsters are a staple in many fantasy settings, not limited to anime.
Fights are common EVERYWHERE.

Even with changed dubbing, they look diseducative. Diseducative not because they are repetitive, fights, violence or monsters, but... the content! The content, in my opinion, is missing in many anime. Ok, some other anime have an unique story, yes? Well, i actually see none of them in my channels, here, in Italy.

Most of whatever is broadcasted on TV outside of Japan is generally not as great as other stuff.

In this period they are not even broadcasting any kind of cartoons anymore if not afternoon (Two times Spongebob? For an hour? What) or early morning (they make classic cartoons, but i'm not getting up at 7:00 :mad The only alternative is Boomerang, but... no, with my situation i'm not going t waste money. Well, it's not the case of most animes, but also for stuff like CN or likes, in my opinion: With AdobeFlash you can do better than that crap.

Powerpuff Girls doesn't air anymore IIRC. Ed, Edd n Eddy is rarely shown, and I'm talking the first four seasons that stayed true to the original formula of an endless summer. Rocko's Modern Life is shown on Nicktoons. Angry Beavers I haven't seen air anywhere anymore. Yet, your example is Spongebob...
Also, many cartoons on CN nowadays ARE made in Flash like Rahan said.

It's true, also classics are popular, but let's see somewhere like outer forums: Like i stated, I made a thread about "How...Dragon" and no one replied, but if there is a thread of the lastest anime, in a day it gets at least more than 40 posts. Still, i posted something about the comic "Bone"... just one reply, while "favorite anime?"... over 30 reply. "the rescuers 2": 2 reply, while, "Naruto?"... over 20 reply!!! Same doesn't go only for me, but for others who tries to post something not anime. Well, how would you feel??? This is another of my reasons i hate this overpopularity: it hides a lot of good things (if not better).

...what?
At the time of this post:

Toy Story 3: 16 replies
Scott Pilgrim: 24 replies
Inuyasha thread: 3 replies
One Piece: 11
Thunder Cats: 7
Gantz: 9
Bone: 3

I dunno, it seems movies get more replies than shows, and shows get more replies than comics.

In forums, threads about Miyazaki i just saw at least one, buried by other posts, even if it got some replies, i just dislike the fact people prefer those half pints who wears strange suits only to attract interest in the plot.

There is no Naruto thread that is active here, so if you mean elsewhere keep in mind that a lot of Narutofans are INSANE.

Sincerely i never gave a look to a Miyazaki's movie, but if they are considered so good and one of the few mentioned animes in School of comics, it must be good, dunno if i will like it or not. At least to them i should give a look. Is that true, Miyazaki drew his storyboards himself? I heard my teacher saying it.

Miyazaki is amazing.

Really, see people that think only to catgirls or Missingno as erotic dream,

Catears are a fetish. Also there is rule34 of Missingno/Gigyas, but not for erotic reasons.

a bunch of moster considered creative and original (while they are just ripoff of Pokemon, also them were good in the earliest generations)

Monsters are not ripoffs of Pokemon. Let's get that straight. Monsters have been in EVERY sort of media well before then, including horror films and the like. In fantasy settings, monsters fit in as an evil force.

and when seeing an awesome and impressive sunset, instead of thinking to have a partner with you or have sweet dreams... they think to SMW's HDMA gradients... well, this really make me sad!!!

What?

Anyway, i think animes are long because they don't take too much time to draw: at least 2-5 frames per second, as i stated. I actually prefer to see an anime with Sonic with SonicCD's style: dynamic and a good effort on making it, not just an one frame that says "aaaaaaaaaaaaaa" and growing up in a black hole to give the effect of falling or disappearing. Well, at least i don't remind this in DB series.

Hint: Anything that has more than 26 episodes a season under the same plot generally gets to be this way. Others, however do NOT get drawn like that, especially now. Gurren Lagann, for instance, is very detailed, full of action, and also is a very great anime about courage. And drills. And mechs. And mechs.

Anyway, i actually cannot watch any anime because their channel is of sure is with pay, especially with italian language, and the only animes in my public channel (in Italy) are just worse than YTPoops. Of Miyazaki's movies, i just remind they broadcasted only 2/3, maybe four years ago, in a channel that works bad where i live
Do you think Miyazaki's movies is a good start? I met some people who consider them wonderful.

The Internet exists for such things to become available. If it isn't easily accessible where you are, torrent shows and whatnot. Chances are they are in Japanese, but who cares? The show will be the same.

Good stuff to look out for:

Evangelion: While I hate this, this has a very deep plot that is downright complex and is really controversial.
Gurren Lagann: Makers of Evangelion, takes mech shows and exaggerates it to the point where it just becomes absurdly awesome.
Azumanga Daioh: Slice of life, also a manga. Charming.
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni: A mystery of sorts. Murders happen (brutal, by the way), you don't know why.
Magical Pokaan: Ecchi series, but short and silly.
Galaxy Angel: I have yet to watch this, however I've been told this is extremely hilarious.
Cromartie High School: This should be enough.
<object width="480" height="385"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nrI7QUJfkvI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

BTW: i dislike any stuff only for buisness purpose with no content (such as Hannah Montana).

I'm absolutely surprised you mentioned none of the slice-of-life anime that has been around in the past few years (Lucky Star, K-On!, etc.) if this bothered you so much.

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Posted on 06-20-10 03:31:00 PM

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	I enjoy most anime, even if I'll forget them right away. Money however forces me to focus attention on fewer... Either way I can't help but think my near instant liking Urusei Yatsura so much traces back to TMNT. Comedy with aliens? Comparable length series of similar era? Whatever the case, I'm proud I can embrace works outside the box. ____________________

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Posted on 06-20-10 03:48:48 PM (last edited by Conte de Contis at 06-20-10 12:50 PM)

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Originally posted by Lunaria
I'm not trying to be an ass here, and I'm sure you already know it. But I have a hard time understanding some of the points your trying to make due to the butchered english.

your

YOUR
YOOOOUUUUR

How can you sermonize about my "butchered" english if even your english is butchered???? My english is not the best because i'm still learning it, and, as for me, i need to talk more english in real life, since i need to improve my spelling too, as for the english. My native language is Italian, not English. I'm still in learning phase and you don't have (and the right to criticize anything relating my person) to say that my english sucks. "ITS" not nice.
~~(where is the " ' "???)~~

Well, let's reply:

@Rahan:

1- Like i stated, it is a general discussion, it is not directed to everything.
Maybe i forgot to mention the older few animes that had fights, yes, i remind Ken. But when i say "Rip-Off" of Pokemon... well, tell me if either "Digimon" and "Monster Rangers" are not rip-off of the poor Pokemons. Even because the first one was broadcasted few time after the Pokemon series relase. Oh well, sorry for the offense. DB series had also epic scenes, even if i don't know where the classic "energy ball" came from.

2- Well, animated doesn't mean "only for kids"... well, that's a good point, even if i didn't state that, it's true (think, when playing a bit with channels, there was a realistic cartoon with a little girl dying for a serious illness). What about Hentai (in my opinion, another ULTRA-CONTENTLESS stuff)?
those anime you have listed don't look so popular: Also, guys, see, i actually doubt most anime are dubbed in Italian. And on understanding talked english i'm a bit newbie :/
There is a change they are dubbed in my language, but i really never heard about them.

3- True, there is also Streaming, but as i said, it is difficult for me understanding english, if there is an anime that is not dubbed in italian. I dunno, there is also something that keeps me out of watching anime.
And as for Spongebob? Sorry, it's me that i don't bear it at all

And yes, CN is full of Adobe Flash, this is why i mentioned it.

4- Well, sooner or later, i'll give a look to a Miyazaki's movie, people always talked about him as a genius

@cpubasic13

1- You rock!

2- True, but as example of anime, many show always a catgirl or a loli. And the monster i mean are like the "spectrobes", not beings like dragons or superlion.
Fights are to give action, but i think sometimes are to fill some empty spaces, like in many shows,

3- it's true, because in Italy, i read recently somewhere, at least 11 hour per day is dedicated to stupid quiz shows that have a jackpot of 2 millions of eurs.
And there is no content on seeing women (in my opinion, sorry if i'm rude, TV whores) with big boobs (maybe someone has heard about Victoria Sylvsted or whatever is her surname, well, she has been the glen of the italian "wheel of fortune" (the new one), and i believe she's a pornstar). I'm not angry only to stupid animes with no content.

4- Yeah, Flash: I dunno what to say about this absence. Because i don't know TV broadcasting out of Italy.

5- Ok, ok, i was not specific at this point, as you stated below about Naruto, "where a lot of Narutofans are INSANE."
And like i said, it's not directed to Jul, to you (i see a lot of various stuff there, especially the epic Anya's

)
See, let's linking the stuff which i am directed to:
Bone(Comic): 1 reply;
The Rescuers Down Under: an underrated Disney movie: 2 replies;
How to train your Dragon: 1 reply (plus my failed attempt to interest other people)
And the movie discussion was inactive for about half year

I cannot believe a notable number of people don't have other interest than Super Mario, Sonic and Company. But i actually don't (and don't want to) blame staff members of SMWC for this: it's fault of ignorance.
This saddens me.
Well, yes, someone posts, but then it's over already.

6- As above

7- As said, i never watched a movie of Miyazaki, but must be amazing. Also the style is not so hateful as catgirls (i hate those big eyes and little mouth and no nose that make them seem ants). He won some oscars, IIRC.

8- Unfortunately, this is why i say "catgirls are in many animes". And the fact that there is rule34 for Gygas and Missingno... is that because someone would use them as internet memes (they already are, actually)?

9- Like i said, it's directed to monsters like "Monster Rangers", not to the classics like the monster of Frankenstein, Alien, Freddy and the one of the black lagoon (or whatever): not at all

10- Maybe it's not clear, but there are people who think only to SMW or videogames everytime and everywhere, well, this is not absurd, i think it's bad. Why i see plenty of people that, in Christmas time", they tell their wish: I want Mario Kart, i want Sonic, i want Wii, i want Xbox... ._.
I also would like a Wii, but not in that way. So what i have said is that people think to SNES HDMA when there is the sunset. god.... maybe i take it too serious...

11- And im directed especially on that kind of anime. that's the main point.

12- Dunno when i will see them out. Maybe i should start from Miyazaki for real, though.

13- Final point: I'm not against Japanese animation in general, but the new boom it's coming on, such as Catgirls almost everywhere. I actually remind my parents (my mom especially) watching them. and i'd say that was much better. I actually would bear (if not enjoy) stuff like Lupin (actually, Lupin rocks).

BTW, EON's layout reminds me the old style of animes.

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Posted on 06-20-10 05:19:10 PM

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	Originally posted by Conte de Contis BTW, EON's layout reminds me the old style of animes. As it should, wasn't the character fairly popular in your country? ____________________

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Posted on 06-20-10 05:44:31 PM

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	Originally posted by RahanAkero Miyazaki's a beautiful place to start. My personal recommendations are Princess Mononoke, Porco Rosso, and The Cat Returns. SPIRITED AWAY Also, I am deeply disappointed that no one has mentioned Cowboy Bebop (unless it was buried in one of those long tirades I skimmed over). The stories, characters, and (good Lord) the music are absolutely amazing, and it can be downright hilarious when it needs to be (Mushroom Samba). ____________________

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Posted on 06-20-10 10:05:18 PM

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Want me to point out all the mistakes you make in your posts too?

For the record, I'm only one year older then you, and Swedish was my first language.

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Posted on 06-20-10 11:16:27 PM

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I don't think we should be having a grammar war in here. Mainly because all posts are still readable.

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Posted on 06-20-10 11:38:52 PM (last edited by FieryIce at 06-20-10 08:39 PM)

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Originally posted by Lunaria
Want me to point out all the mistakes you make in your posts too?

For the record, I'm only one year older then you, and Swedish was my first language.

He can easily be understood, there's no need to start a grammar/spelling war when his point is still quite clear. Also, I'd like to point out that a leap from Italian to English is actually much more difficult than a leap from Swedish to English.

I dislike pointing out people's (grammar/spelling) mistakes (outside a professional environment) because I consider that impolite, unless that person has been using that as a point to insult me or someone I know. I especially do not like to point out mistakes because I make them as well; my first language is not English, it's Spanish, and I still make mistakes in both.

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Posted on 06-20-10 11:40:20 PM

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My first and ONLY language is English, and I still make mistakes. Nobody has a perfect grasp of English, only a good one.

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Posted on 06-21-10 12:07:59 AM

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Originally posted by Conte de Contis

7- As said, i never watched a movie of Miyazaki, but must be amazing. Also the style is not so hateful as catgirls (i hate those big eyes and little mouth and no nose that make them seem ants). He won some oscars, IIRC.

(Not the best drawing but i had to draw it fast because I'm pressed for time...)

Also, it's fine, that's your taste. Me? I don't like a lot of anime.

Anime I have liked? Urusei Yatsura, Ranma 1/2, Higurashi no naku koro ni, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Haruhi Suzumiya no Yuutsu, Lucky Star (WAY better if you get the references.), Magical Pokaan..

Sorta liked? Sailor Moon (Subtitles, not dubbed) especially more towards the beginning, and K-ON!(Cute and all, but... kinda repetitive after a while. Decent music though.)

Disliked? The list is too long.

Just like anything. Western cartoons, music. etc. People have their own tastes. I'm not a fan of quite a few western cartoons of old. Fat Albert, superfriends...

And you mention bug eyes, go look at looney toons and tell me those eyes are in proportion. I dare you.

Also, on the topic of catgirls, they're a repeating theme. Western repeating theme? Talking animals. You also mention catgirls being a 'style'? It really isn't, though that could be language barrier. You may mean chibi style (Big heads, no nose, often catgirls are drawn chibi.)

Catgirls probably come from nekomata, shape shifting cats, in Japanese folklore.

Catchable monsters? Explainable as Japan had a shitton of different types of monsters in its history.

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Posted on 06-21-10 01:19:55 AM

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Originally posted by Lunaria
Want me to point out all the mistakes you make in your posts too?

For the record, I'm only one year older then you, and Swedish was my first language.

Maybe if you got off your high horse once in a while, there wouldn't be any conflict.

Conte, as a fellow artist, I gotta say, I admire you for your artistic prowess. However, I only skimmed over your arguments, and, well...
Ok. Firstly, I agree with you on some things. Today's anime is mostly shit. Mainly because it gets flooded with moe-shit, because that's the big thing in Japan right now: virgin manchildren. In retrospect, the Western Graphic Novel market is NOT flooded with shit, because its not nearly as globally popular. Given that, the anime and manga world is often overrun with garbage. You are correct; Moe is bad. From what I've inferred, you haven't watched anything good, and lord knows, in my opinion, by means of exercising my first amendment rights, you haven't been suggested anything that would change your opinion.

Look at the works of Fukumoto. Kaiji and Akagi are two amazing anime that go under the radar because of the unique art style and plot. No one has ever heard of Akagi or Kaiji, because very few people are willing to use enough brainpower to look past anime that have tsundere comedy, shounen action, or moe. That's just how it is.
Berserk is ridiculous, but thankfully, people know about it. And deservedly so. It's fucking good. At first, it looks like a generic seinen hack n slash, but the characters are so psychological in nature, that there's a lot of deeper meaning behind everything. Also, Black Lagoon. But, don't just read this and go, "oh, huh, lookit that."
If you actually mean to not troll us all in this thread, you should check some of these out on youtube at the very least. If you don't like it, you don't like it. If you do, then good.

Now, let me get a net, because I know I'm going to be catching shit for posting this.

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Posted on 06-21-10 01:21:42 AM

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Originally posted by Conte de Contis
Originally posted by Lunaria
I'm not trying to be an ass here, and I'm sure you already know it. But I have a hard time understanding some of the points your trying to make due to the butchered english.

your

YOUR
YOOOOUUUUR

a thousand times

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Posted on 06-21-10 01:25:18 AM

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Originally posted by The Accidental Protege
Now, let me get a net, because I know I'm going to be catching shit for posting this.

Actually, you are right. "Moe" is selling, therefore it is being marketed at an alarming rate while creative things get a cult following or are just forgotten.

Things that would just be considered cute are constantly pushed to the moe limits as well. Kind of sucks, but not much you can do.

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Posted on 06-21-10 01:40:31 AM

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Originally posted by Xkeeper
Originally posted by Conte de Contis
Originally posted by Lunaria
I'm not trying to be an ass here, and I'm sure you already know it. But I have a hard time understanding some of the points your trying to make due to the butchered english.

your

YOUR
YOOOOUUUUR

a thousand times

I laughed out loud at it. It was a crowning moment of awesome, to quote that blasted TvTropes.

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Posted on 06-21-10 04:04:37 AM (last edited by Jin Dogan at 06-21-10 01:10 AM)

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I think you just don't really like modern anime. I feel similarly because it is quite hard for me to find new stuff I actually like. Been watching Slam Dunk recently. I can calmly say that my favorite anime are all quite original and entertaining in their own right. Several are regarded as international classics as well. If you wish to take a peek, here:

Galaxy Express 999 Movie
Robotech/Macross
GTO
Zeta Gundam
Maison Ikkoku
Votoms
LOGH
Tie: Ashita no Joe/Hajime no Ippo/Slam Dunk
One Piece
City Hunter
Fist of the North Star

Also Cromartie FTW cpubasic!!

Protege: I saw Kaiji and part of Akagi. The former was pretty cool, I was hanging on the edge of my seat in every episode! The same with the latter, amazing how even though I don't know the rules of Mahjongg it still managed to draw me in!

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Posted on 06-21-10 04:20:34 AM

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At first I was not going to post in this thread. But what the hell, I guess I can share a cent or two.

The thing about anime is that it's not for everyone. Not even for different types of music, videogames, TV shows, and in this case. Cartoons.

If you dislike anime. Perhaps it's because you never really got the chance to really sink your teeth into a series? When I was growing up, I had the international channel, and the shows that played were Yu Yu Hakusho, Birdy, Bubblegum Crisis, and my all time favorite classic. Baki the Grappler (The movie. Not the show). But anyways, it could mean that you don't find the type of animation Japan has to offer? If this is the case. Then don't let anyone tell you otherwise; it's not for you. Simple.

As for old cartoons. Bugs Bunny, Mickey mouse, and etc. You gotta admit that they are very huge icons in the animation industry. And even to this day, millions of people like those cartoons. Why? Because it's for everyone.

Spongebob, and other cartoons played today are sure, for everyone. But they lack the same diversity that was shown in WB and Disney. There was something in those cartoons that were for everyone. Anime can't exactly touch that base as much as I would like for it to. But at least it has reached American soil, and that certain people love it.

All I gotta say is that no one should really tell you that Anime is superior to this generation or previous generations of American animation. It's your liking. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

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Posted on 06-21-10 07:34:55 AM (last edited by Eon at 06-21-10 04:37 AM)

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	Modern animation just doesn't look right. Computers fail at creating that style which made the classics so endearing. They felt hand-crafted with love. ____________________

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Posted on 06-21-10 08:40:33 AM

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Let's reply: before to specific stuff...

@Xkeeper: If it's all... thousand times must be difficult...
@Jamosup: If you reply only because you like facepalms to n00bs (who do it is quite wrong about me, also because i'm all but a n00b) trying to be liked by everyone (i hope and i'm sure it doesn't happen), why don't do it elsewhere? in any case:

@Lunaria: It's not the matter of grammar, it's matter of being a BOOR! You talk with someone, the other one tells you "i cannot understand because your breath stinks"... how would you feel? If you see some mis-typed words, you are welcome to fix me them, if you are going to post only because my english sucks, just don't. You just belie yourself with your post. if i were you... :x
End of story, topic about grammar closed forever.

@Zero one, FieryIce and TAP: thanks, but don't worry about me

--------

Now, let's reply to on-topic posts:

@Eon: Yes, it was quite popular in Italy (plenty of animes were popular years ago in my country), well, even if i don't remember it. That's the anime style i don't dislike. And yes, the matter is about new animation because it doesn't take too much effort and money. I don't demand effort like in Disney Classic, but give more quality to cartoons would be a good idea.

@Gunstar Green: I dunno what to reply, but they should not be bad animes.

@Tyty: You are totally right about tastes. But i would say:
About big eyes: in animes, big eyes were to give more expressivity to character (this was AstroBoy's case), but today it looks like a must so much the reason has been almost forgotten, IMO (just see catgirls animes).
Looney tunes are also for expressivity.
About catgirls: yes, it may be, but, still, looks like a fad than a reference to Japanese culture. Just like the monsters.
Talking animals are not only in Western cartoons, but also in Japan. Just see Sherlock Holmes. That's the anime style i would prefer, with eyes that have an expression purpose, not a "fad" purpose.
There are talking animals because only humans would look too repetitive. Just like catgilrs.

@TAP: Troll you? not at all. I'm not the one that firstly open a thread looking for opinions and then, seeing different opinions posts "YOU ALL GAYS SUCKS 111ONE111 LOLOLOL"... Well, i hope i didn't give this thought. (once, a year ago, and i wasn't in jul, i was looking for opinions about how to improve my behavior... a mod trashed my thead because i would act like an idiot after different opinions... bah) But let's get on topic.
I actually think that much good stuff has been hidden by crap they are broadcasting lately. I also didn't knew the meaning of "moe", but i knew it exists. Yes, it's sad, really sad... seeing a lot of people thinking to how to find Missingno in Pokemon or how to get the supersecretworldthatdoesnexist in SMW56, instead of getting a life. Again, i am not directed to all animes, i always think there is a little light over bunch of darkness, even if i always think it's extremely difficult to reach it.

@cpubasic: Same point as above, cute things are overused.

@Jim Dogan: You won a cookie, it's just the fact i hate most of modern animes and their popularity. Sick of seeing always those effemminate boys in "love" animes. Where are the true men like Ken? I read a bit throught the beginnig of the plot of Slam Dunk... it doens't look like the classic and usual "cute horror" you see in many places. that seems to have actual content, for first. About some of animes you listed: Gundam is fucking famous, but i never had something against it, same for one piece, but i never had interst to it. IIRC, One Piece goes to demential-drama themes.

@Bitmap: Same for you, you made goos points. but you wrong about me. I didn't say i dislike animes. and i know not every kind of cartoons are always for children, both in Japan and out (the example of the dying little girl). Yes, it depends on tasted, but as i pointed out, i just dislike those huge eyes in new animes with big iris and pupil that gives difficulty to recognize the mood of the character. I just would like the equality, which will be hard, if not impossible.

I wouls just add something for now: those are certanely better of Cluth Cargo <___>

Feel free to add if you have good points

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