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05-03-22 08:32:52 AM
Jul - NSMB Hacking (Archive) - Editor Development thread New poll - New thread - New reply
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dirbaio
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Posted on 06-18-10 07:06:53 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Pirahnaplant
I definitely like that much better. We could also move some stuff off the toolbar and put it onto the menustrip. How does the minimap work though, it's much smaller than before.


It's half the size as before. In that pic, however, i still haven't coded the scale-down code so the minimap is clipped, but when this is finished you'll see the whole level, twice as small as before.
dirbaio
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Posted on 06-18-10 07:49:37 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by ILikeNSMBHacking
@Dirbaio:

Little suggestion for the background feature (the one made for remakes...)... Could you make the image dragabble? Alot of images I have aren't done on an exact 16x16 grid, so that will make it hard to remake the levels I want without editing with Paint or something every image... Thanks...


Implemented in r98
ILikeNSMBHacking
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Posted on 06-19-10 03:00:06 AM (last edited by ILikeNSMBHacking at 06-19-10 12:12 AM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by dirbaio
Originally posted by ILikeNSMBHacking
@Dirbaio:

Little suggestion for the background feature (the one made for remakes...)... Could you make the image dragabble? Alot of images I have aren't done on an exact 16x16 grid, so that will make it hard to remake the levels I want without editing with Paint or something every image... Thanks...


Implemented in r98


This is great!!! No more compile errors (using r99 now)

Also, what is MDI? e3: Nevermind, figured it out ...

e: The image moving works perfect
e2: Nice implementation of one universal window that controls all sub-windows... IMO a much-needed feature MDI

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Posted on 06-19-10 03:33:55 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by dirbaio
It's a MDI (Multiple Display Interface), like the ones in M$ Offic€... You can either have all the windows maximized and switch through the Window menu, or have them "inside" the main window, where you can resize them freely.
I've been also thinking of a "tabbed" interface, but it forces you to have just one window on screen, which mught be fine for small screens, but useless and limiting for large screens.

What about having tabs which use MDI, but just bring the specified window to the front when clicked?

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dirbaio
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Posted on 06-19-10 10:07:21 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Treeki

What about having tabs which use MDI, but just bring the specified window to the front when clicked?


That's a nice idea...
Should i make the tabs visible only when windows are maximized or always visible?
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Posted on 06-19-10 10:46:10 AM Link | Quote
06-19-10 05:46:10 AM
Post #3405
I strongly recommend the multiple windows approach. With MDI you toss a lot of the window manager's functionality out the (ahem) window.

Often you have a couple editor windows, with their tool windows, and some documents/images you're looking at for reference. With MDI all have the same Z order, and usually a large grey box behind them all, so you have to shuffle things around lest an editor or tool window you're not even using cover up your reference document.

If you want to duplicate something from a screenshot, you can just place the editor window right overtop of the screenshot and turn it semi-transparent. With MDI you often can't do this, at least not to individual windows.

To find a particular window you have to first bring up the master window from the taskbar, then bring up the specific window from whatever method the program provides. You (at best) double the amount of time and number of clicks needed to find a window, and the second step is different for each program.

All of the windows are constrained to a box, which basically prevents you from using the program on multiple screens. Dual-screen setups are becoming increasingly common and some people have even 5-6 monitors, and/or the visible area is not a single rectangle (especially if one of the screens is a laptop, TV, etc). Even if you can extend that box across both screens, you end up with a lot of unused space covering all your other windows.

MDI is basically poorly re-implementing the window manager and taskbar on top of the existing window manager and taskbar. Leave it to the WM to do its job just as the user wants, rather than trying to force your own methods on users and breaking a lot of functionality in the process. Taskbar clutter is easily solved: place the taskbar at the side of the screen and look at how many buttons now fit on it. Modern taskbars can also group windows automatically so that your several editor windows collapse into a single menu, eliminating this problem entirely.

Heck, here's some actual use cases. Suppose I'm using these images as a reference as I design my level:

Active windows clearly visible, everything accessible with one click on the taskbar.

Mock MDI. Can't see a goddamn thing through the clutter of all these toolwindows I'm not actually using at the moment, and a box in the way behind them. The web browser and terminals aren't doing anything, but if I wanted to put some of my tool windows over there, I'd have to make the boxes even bigger and cover up all that space, or move everything into that little area. Either way slows down access to those if I do want them, since now I have to find them in the taskbar instead of just clicking a visible region - and then if I want to look at the editor and the browser at the same time, I need to move and resize and rearrange it all again.

MDI died long ago, for very good reasons.

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ILikeNSMBHacking
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Posted on 06-19-10 01:33:01 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by dirbaio
Originally posted by Treeki

What about having tabs which use MDI, but just bring the specified window to the front when clicked?


That's a nice idea...
Should i make the tabs visible only when windows are maximized or always visible?

Probably all the time, but, when they are not maximized, make them look like buttons instead of tabs? Just my two cents...



Originally posted by HyperHacker
*snip*
IMO, MDI is much needed for this, but, I would make a build with it and one without it... Just so that each audience gets their fair share of happiness.




@Dirbaio: I know you said in the rules not to complain about errors from each unofficial build, but with the minimap preview that always sticks to the side pane in the editor, everything of settings for the sprites, etc, goes behind the minimap if it is long enough... Just bringing it to your attention, as I had to remove it from my personal build to edit efficiently...



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dirbaio
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Posted on 06-19-10 02:39:38 PM (last edited by dirbaio at 06-19-10 11:39 AM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by ILikeNSMBHacking
Originally posted by HyperHacker
*snip*
IMO, MDI is much needed for this, but, I would make a build with it and one without it... Just so that each audience gets their fair share of happiness.


Yeah...
HyperHacker, you're absolutelyy right. For people with multiple displays or with big displays MDI is not a need, it's a problem. But I, for example, only have one screen at 1024x768, which is quite small, and i hate having too much windows.
I'll do what ILikeNSMBHacking said: to have two versions, one with MDI and another without. Or even better, an option to toggle MDI.

Originally posted by ILikeNSMBHacking

@Dirbaio: I know you said in the rules not to complain about errors from each unofficial build, but with the minimap preview that always sticks to the side pane in the editor, everything of settings for the sprites, etc, goes behind the minimap if it is long enough... Just bringing it to your attention, as I had to remove it from my personal build to edit efficiently...




Oh.. I didnt notice. Thx
Actually, i think that that rule was too bad. It's ok to have bug reports. I just didn't want n00bs to compile the editor and come back to the forum saying that it "doesnt work", or asking what all those buttons named "button1" do I'll rewrite it better now
Pirahnaplant
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Posted on 06-19-10 04:17:17 PM Link | Quote
I just added build configurations for MDI and non-MDI. Now we can easily distribute 2 versions. I'll look into an option to disable the MDI, but I think this way is much easier.

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ILikeNSMBHacking
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Posted on 06-19-10 09:26:04 PM (last edited by ILikeNSMBHacking at 06-20-10 07:14 PM) Link | Quote
I like your idea, Dirbaio... A switch would be nice... Or at least, maybe, a setting in a .ini file or in the spritedata.txt or something...

e: IMO, there should be a show/hide button for that minimap thingy at the bottom of the options section... Just my two cents

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dirbaio
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Posted on 06-20-10 03:41:11 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by ILikeNSMBHacking
that map16 thingy

What thingy are you talking about?
ILikeNSMBHacking
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Posted on 06-20-10 10:13:50 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by dirbaio
Originally posted by ILikeNSMBHacking
that map16 thingy

What thingy are you talking about?

*facepalm* I meant MiniMap (fixed)

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dirbaio
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Posted on 06-21-10 12:21:33 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by ILikeNSMBHacking
Originally posted by dirbaio
Originally posted by ILikeNSMBHacking
that map16 thingy

What thingy are you talking about?

*facepalm* I meant MiniMap (fixed)

Ah... ok

Yeah...i should make an option to toggle it. I'll do it soon
dirbaio
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Posted on 06-21-10 07:10:00 PM Link | Quote
Yay!
<object width="480" height="385"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MzH8fslMjuo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
ILikeNSMBHacking
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Posted on 06-21-10 08:52:49 PM (last edited by ILikeNSMBHacking at 06-21-10 05:53 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by dirbaio
Yay!
*snip*

Isn't that an AR code?

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dirbaio
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Posted on 06-22-10 11:45:19 AM Link | Quote
No.
It's coded in C++. It modifies a piece of code that handles all the tile behaviors. If it finds a tile with behavior diferent of 000000... it makes Mario go up. That's why you can sometimes bounce on coins.
ILikeNSMBHacking
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Posted on 06-22-10 02:22:33 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by dirbaio
No.
It's coded in C++. It modifies a piece of code that handles all the tile behaviors. If it finds a tile with behavior diferent of 000000... it makes Mario go up. That's why you can sometimes bounce on coins.

Ah... To me it looked like the "high jump" AR code...

Cool!

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dirbaio
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Posted on 06-22-10 04:58:46 PM Link | Quote
No

you don't "jump". You bounce automatically when you touch the ground
It's not obvious in the video
ILikeNSMBHacking
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Posted on 06-22-10 05:19:13 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by dirbaio
No

you don't "jump". You bounce automatically when you touch the ground
It's not obvious in the video

Ah, ok, now that makes since XD

Thanks for clearing that up...
lol...

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NsmB_PrO
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Posted on 06-23-10 06:18:32 PM Link | Quote
I was really industrious, because I made a german Editor translation
took me a lot of time to do that!
@dirbaio:
could you please do that into the editor for german users?
(i know, there are not many german users, but please do it for the german users what are here!

Here is the german textfile:
http://www.mediafire.com/?rdymwjoozzz

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