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Lyskar
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-The Chaos within trumps the Chaos without-
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Posted on 05-01-10 10:22:18 PM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
It's just annoying how the internet standard sort of fell apart from HTML 3.0. Back in the day, I could explain it to people with analogies to a Word file with bold, underline, etc. These days, I have to talk about that, then bring in CSS files, Javascript, and potentially PHP or ASP. Then once I have all of these in, I get to discuss the effects of HTTP errors and DOS attacks and then on top of that SWF files which are debatably useless as they take over the role HTML and javascript were supposed to do.

But Javascript has become smarter and so there's AJAX to counter flash, but then there's Java as well which does the same thing, and then ActiveX and also Silverlight, and some dead extensions tried to also add new programming capability.

So then you do this and then suddenly you see them all blur together as browsers for whatever reason don't care if you mix them together, creating nightmarish clouds of PHP-Flash-Ajax mayhem which take weeks to debug and break at the drop of a hat.

So in conclusion, the web's language maintainers have failed in pretty much the worst way possible. What was once a compact and simplified SGML language is now a gigantic clusterf#$% of random language-choose-a-thon false dillemma-prone anarchy.

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Posted on 05-01-10 11:01:51 PM Link | Quote
I bet that felt good to let out.

Having not dealt with web development I can't say i understand most of the matter but I can understand the frustration it must cause.

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Hiryuu

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Posted on 05-01-10 11:14:14 PM Link | Quote
Cool story, bro.
Lyskar
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Posted on 05-01-10 11:17:07 PM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
Originally posted by FirePhoenix
Having not dealt with web development I can't say i understand most of the matter but I can understand the frustration it must cause.


Doubly so when you have knowledge in C++ to compare it to. In one, there's a handful of hacky things and a handful of things that you have to use plugins to do.

In the other, HTML, you need a plugin for it to do anything but basic things, which is plum ridiculous when the HTML spec was made with plenty of room to have the browser and it handle it instead.

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Posted on 05-02-10 03:55:53 AM Link | Quote
Java is the devil. It is a landmine of the internet, right next to PDF files.

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Posted on 05-02-10 04:16:59 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Metal_Man88
.


*Nods and smiles*


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Rena
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Posted on 05-02-10 08:57:13 AM (last edited by HyperHacker at 05-02-10 05:58 AM) Link | Quote
05-02-10 03:57:13 AM
Post #3183
It's true, HTML has gone from a nice simple "<b>foo</b> makes bold" to a fairly complex multi-layered system. However, that's not because someone has failed, but because demands have changed and people have realized how narrow the original spec was. In 1998 there wasn't a lot of demand for fancy styles, dynamically generated content, or being able to define a page's appearance and interactive behaviour separate from the page itself and re-use those definitions for other pages.

Keep in mind that <b> and <i> are still part of HTML4 (not sure why <u> isn't), so nothing stops you from doing things mostly the old-fashioned way. It just doesn't have some of the advantages of modern methods such as future-proofing, extendability, and the ability to reformat the page for another device (printer, phone, etc) without changing its content.

Flash is a pile of crap and exists only because there was demand for things HTML couldn't do at the time. With SVG and HTML5, HTML can now do nearly everything Flash can do, so if people would just hurry up and implement hardware rendering to make SVG not so fucking slow and settle on a video format, we'd be able to eliminate it entirely.
Similarly, Java is generally used when there's no way to do what is wanted with Javascript alone. JS is much more powerful than it used to be, so these days it's possible to have web apps like Google does without any bloated third-party add-ons.
As for PDF, it's really Adobe Reader that sucks, not the file format itself. There are other PDF readers such as FoxIt that don't suck.

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Lyskar
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Posted on 05-02-10 09:04:03 AM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
Yeah, PDF with a non-Adobe reader is fine.

It is my hope they fix the hardware implementation. Part of the reason I bothered ranting on the technobabble was that, for once, it seems HTML5 and proper hardware rendering could at least strike a blow to the stupider parts of modern web stuff.

...

Although I'm still a stickler for less complex, multi-media dependency things, I'd definitely be happy with an HTML5 spec which brings it together.

...<u> is not a standard anymore but the other two are? WTF?

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Posted on 05-02-10 01:47:10 PM Link | Quote
I don't like the overuse of PDFs. It's much more bearable with SumatraPDF set up as the default viewer and Abloaty Reader not even installed, but most public computers I have to use have Adobe. Still though, some people use PDFs for stuff that could easily just be put in a Web page. I don't usually print things, I prefer to look at them online, so I don't like things being formatted needlessly into paper pages.

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Posted on 05-03-10 02:43:22 AM Link | Quote
Computers at work suck so a PDF will absolutely lag it and/or crash IE.

Problem is that some of our help sheets are in - you guessed it - PDF format. And it could EASILY be in normal HTML like Terra stated.

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