Jul -- News: RIAA wants the Government to make spyware to delete files

Rena
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Posted on 04-19-10 05:48:54 AM

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04-19-10 12:48:54 AM
Post #3128

People were saying on Slashdot that they may be intending to propose something ludicrous, then soften it up into something still ludicrous, but less so, in hopes people will consider it "reasonable" compared to the original plan.

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Posted on 04-19-10 06:05:27 AM

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Ugh.

Corporate interests are destroying the world, if you ask me. Is piracy really hurting them that badly that they have to resort to such drastic measures, or do the CEOs just want an additional gold-plated private jet?

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Arisu
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Posted on 04-19-10 06:19:46 AM

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Originally posted by Terra
Is piracy really hurting them that badly that they have to resort to such drastic measures, or do the CEOs just want an additional gold-plated private jet?

Yes, piracy is a big problem these days; there's no justification for it. If one gets falsely accused they can counter-sue and it's bad media, but if someone is obviously pirating there's no reason their ISP should protect criminals.

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Posted on 04-19-10 06:26:13 AM

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Except they punish those that actually do purchase things legally. Take a look at Assassin's Creed II, requiring an Internet connection to play the game. Pirates get to avoid this altogether.

Same with music. Pirates are going to find a way around it while those that buy their music are restricted to iTunes and have to pay extra to remove any form of anti-piracy.

Also this will never come to fruition, thank god, but still.

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Posted on 04-19-10 06:28:26 AM

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Originally posted by Arisu
Yes, piracy is a big problem these days; there's no justification for it. If one gets falsely accused they can counter-sue and it's bad media, but if someone is obviously pirating there's no reason their ISP should protect criminals.

I'd like to see hard numbers on actual lost sales, because it's obvious that these companies aren't struggling at all.

And no, one download != one lost sale.

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Rena
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Posted on 04-19-10 06:32:14 AM

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04-19-10 01:32:14 AM
Post #3130

If you count the way they do when calculating damages, then I guess one download equals hundreds of thousands of lost sales. :specialed:

Originally posted by cpubasic13
Except they punish those that actually do purchase things legally. Take a look at Assassin's Creed II, requiring an Internet connection to play the game. Pirates get to avoid this altogether.

What I loved about that was the servers crashed on day one. Pirates get to play the game, customers get nothing. And when the servers are taken down (say, around when ACIII comes out), pirates will still be able to play. Yep piracy sure is evil; damn those people wanting to use the product they paid for!

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Posted on 04-19-10 06:44:24 AM

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If you want to be statistical, each download means shit.

You are still going to have the same amount of people buy. The only difference will be is if the release wasn't that great those that pirated won't buy it and those that were anticipating it will like it then buy it.

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Posted on 04-19-10 06:54:45 AM

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Originally posted by cpubasic13
If you want to be statistical, each download means shit.

You are still going to have the same amount of people buy. The only difference will be is if the release wasn't that great those that pirated won't buy it and those that were anticipating it will like it then buy it.

Usually you buy something before using it.

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Posted on 04-19-10 07:12:25 AM

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	Usually you also like to know what you're buying and whether it is actually worth the money you are being asked to spend on it. ____________________ <@Bitmap> Be completely humble and gentle; <@Bitmap> And tell them to shut the fuck up

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Posted on 04-19-10 07:20:49 AM

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Here's a real-life example, just for you:

Purchased: A Blu-Ray disc containing Where the Wild Things Are
Contains: B-R Disc, "digital copy DVD"

If I want to be legal:
I can make a single "digital copy" of the movie, via iTunes only, for a single device, and the offer expires a little after the start of 2011, making the disc more or less worthless, despite having purchased the movie.

If I want to use my purchase how I want:
Violate the DMCA by circumventing the DVD's copy protection, convert it into a format I can use anywhere, and put it on as many devices as I or the rest of my family may own, including putting it onto multiple iPods, putting it onto a shared media server so I don't have to dig out the DVD or worry if it gets lost/scratched/broken, or anything else.

So yeah, uh, you can take your antipiracy crusade and shove it right up your ass.

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Posted on 04-19-10 07:30:24 AM

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Basically polishing a piece of shit

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Arisu
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Posted on 04-19-10 07:52:38 AM

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Originally posted by Xkeeper
Here's a real-life example, just for you:

Purchased: A Blu-Ray disc containing Where the Wild Things Are
Contains: B-R Disc, "digital copy DVD"

If I want to be legal:
I can make a single "digital copy" of the movie, via iTunes only, for a single device, and the offer expires a little after the start of 2011, making the disc more or less worthless, despite having purchased the movie.

If I want to use my purchase how I want:
Violate the DMCA by circumventing the DVD's copy protection, convert it into a format I can use anywhere, and put it on as many devices as I or the rest of my family may own, including putting it onto multiple iPods, putting it onto a shared media server so I don't have to dig out the DVD or worry if it gets lost/scratched/broken, or anything else.

So yeah, uh, you can take your antipiracy crusade and shove it right up your ass.

Yes, I am sure the piracy crisis is because some Joe the Programmer can't conveniently manage his data in a legal way, and not because he is downloading tens of thousands of movies/games/etc without any imaginable ownership over said data.

Welp, I guess piracy doesn't exist, your win.

Rena
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Posted on 04-19-10 08:01:53 AM

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04-19-10 03:01:53 AM
Post #3131

Yes, you're totally right. Those guys who download thousands of movies and games are killing the industry! Think of how much money the ~~billionaire record company CEOs~~ producers and artists would be making if they'd instead bought every single one! I mean your average college kid can afford a couple hundred thousand movies, games and songs, right? They're all totally worth paying for (we can tell before ever even hearing/seeing them) and we all have plenty of money, so clearly every one of these downloads is a lost sale!

Oh yeah, don't even think of trying to watch that movie on a display, player, or cable that doesn't support HDCP, or a PC that runs Linux, or in any decent video player software. Or making a backup copy of that fragile plastic disc. Or making a copy of someone else's to replace the one you forgot to back up after breaking it. Or playing it on your favourite portable device. Or taking a screenshot of a particularly amusing scene. Or playing it on an older player you haven't connected to the Internet recently. Or copying it to a new format once your disc is old and degraded and your player doesn't work so well anymore or your new TV doesn't have the right connectors for it. Or connecting it through any kind of video recorder, even if you don't intend to actually record anything with it, just to make the wiring easier (or because you could connect it to your new TV that way). Or creating a censored/translated version for family viewing. Or moving the player into the other room/car/etc with the non-HDCP TV. Or making a parody version. And enjoy the 10+ minutes of unskippable ads every time you watch! (What else am I forgetting here?)
All of these things are entirely legal and covered by fair use laws, but oh well.
Oh yeah, and Blu-ray requires encryption, even on your home videos.

But don't worry, as long as you don't do any of those things, I'm sure everything will be just fine. It's not like those $30+ (plus tax) discs will rot away after a few years, or plant a virus on your PC, or the mandatory update needed to watch the movie will break the player or remove useful functionality for no good reason, or somewhere in those layers and layers of complex "protection" something will just randomly fail. And just because your player/disc can be remotely disabled at the touch of the button doesn't mean it will. Not even by accident or by some malicious virus/hacker/etc.

http://stupidinter.net/piracy.jpg says it all.

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Posted on 04-19-10 10:28:16 AM

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This spyware tactic will never work... but I don't even download movies or music, typically just old software (and they sure as hell haven't been going against it... =/)

But it's ridiculous to put unskippable copyright warnings on DVDs and Blu-rays... especially since with VHS, you could skip the warning altogether. =/

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Posted on 04-19-10 11:41:53 AM

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Originally posted by Arisu
Yes, I am sure the piracy crisis is because some Joe the Programmer can't conveniently manage his data in a legal way, and not because he is downloading tens of thousands of movies/games/etc without any imaginable ownership over said data.

Welp, I guess piracy doesn't exist, your win.

I love how you imply that this is only a problem for people who are somehow rare (which programmers usually are). I'm not joking when I say this was an actual problem my family (not me) had, just fyi -- they couldn't get the "digital copy" working.

I'm guessing that's your excuse for games that lock you out if you can't play, too, right? After all, who in their right mind would want to violate copy protection that kills your game if the servers die? That $50+ game you just bought is unplayable now, because the servers were taken down by whoever.

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Posted on 04-19-10 01:23:04 PM

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I doubt that this will ever happen, the RIAA + MPAA and their bull crap, I see this as just yet another scare, hoping they can scare people once again into not pirating music and videos. Although I do remember the 'Sony BMG CD copy protection scandal' that got many people with Windows PC's upset because their purchased CD's would try to install a rootkit and removing the rootkit lead to system crashes, for Windows users anyways.

I hope the RIAA and MPAA don't follow Sony's rootkit path, or there's gonna be a lot of uprising of angry people on their hands.

But again, I doubt something like this would ever happen, surely they would have learned from Sony's past mistake, but then again they probably didn't learn from it all.. :/

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Posted on 04-19-10 02:29:50 PM

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When are people going to realize that if I download 100,000 songs, that does not equal 100,000 lost purchases? Heck, that doesn't even equal ONE lost purchase. If I am pirating a song, then usually its because I wouldn't have bought that song in the first place. When most people pirate, they are either pirating stuff that they wouldn't have bought in the first place, or they are previewing a product that they WILL actually buy if they feel that it is worth the purchase after previewing it. In the mean time, all of those 100,000 downloads are serving as FREE ADVERTISING for 100,000 different bands. There are a TON of groups that I would have never known existed if it weren't from downloading a bunch of other groups to see what I liked, and then downloading other groups I discovered were similar. The groups that I DID like, I have bought all of their stuff, and recommend it to anyone I know, so those groups actually OWE THEIR SALES TO PIRACY, as well as the free advertising and word of mouth. The other songs I pirated would not have gotten my money anyway, so those do not count as lost sales.

* So this just shows how every single piracy statistic you may have seen is in fact complete bullshit. They are all based on an assumption that is an all out lie.

If people who pirate everything suddenly couldn't pirate anything, they would not all of a sudden start buying everything they would have just pirated. Instead, THEY WOULD JUST AVOID IT ENTIRELY because it wasn't worth buying in the first place, or they can't afford to buy said product. Companies would still have the same amount of "lost sales" as they do now, they just wouldn't have any statistics to show it.

The only type of piracy that actually leads to lost sales, is the piracy generated by the very makers of the product when they bog the actual product down with useless anti-piracy garbage. I other words, in cases when people who legitimately buy the product have to put up a ton of bull that the pirated version doesn't have to deal with. This is the case with Assassin's Creed 2 and the "digital copy" garbage. If the pirated copy works fine, but the legitimate copy is full of restrictions/lesser quality/garbage, then why actually buy the product? These anti-piracy measures and DRM actually fuel the piracy that the companies are trying to prevent, since actual pirates aren't affected by them, only LEGITIMATE USERS are.

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Posted on 04-19-10 03:03:52 PM

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Originally posted by Arisu
Usually you buy something before using it.

Ok I'm totally going to buy Photoshop without knowing if I'd actually be able to use all the features in it, let alone be good in it.

Hint: it costs over $600

Also piracy helps a lot in many cases. For instance, independent music artists have their music pirated. Their name spreads around as people that did buy it share it. The people that pirate it start to enjoy it. They begin buying music from said artist and spreading it around.

Piracy isn't all so evil.

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Posted on 04-19-10 03:50:47 PM

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Metal_Man88's Post

Ah ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah, like that Trusted Computing initiative, which planned to, starting with the Pentium 4, expand on the Pentium 3's unique ID so that they'd be able to track every computer with an encrypted snitch chip, right?

...Only it never went anywhere and is only present in a few random devices for completely different reasons.

This will probably be the same way. Lofty standard attempts to control everything, FCC rejects it, remnants of standard become components which do nothing other than to ensure the integrity of data going around on some ethernet chips.

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