Jul -- SM64 Hacking (Archive): Mario 64 Level Importer

messiaen
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Posted on 03-25-10 09:57:58 PM

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With emulators, one probably could push the limits way beyond the N64 hardware can handle (if we aren't already, which is very likely). For instance, enabling the z-buffer is a very costly operation to the GPU, and since high-level emulators don't enable the RCP at all (actually, I think audio is low-level in most plugins nowadays) they probably don't even take this in account.

Emoluvjd2: Well, I hope you are talking about the back face issues in SketchUp, which may generate collision errors.

DarkSpacer
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Posted on 03-26-10 12:26:57 AM

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Most of the time when I export a level with a building in it that you can go inside of, the building collision gets really glitchy. That's because the OBJ exporter, even when set to "guess which faces to export", exports both sides of the faces. And that can get very glitchy very fast if you're not careful.

messiaen
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Posted on 03-26-10 01:53:31 AM

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Originally posted by DarkSpacer
Most of the time when I export a level with a building in it that you can go inside of, the building collision gets really glitchy. That's because the OBJ exporter, even when set to "guess which faces to export", exports both sides of the faces. And that can get very glitchy very fast if you're not careful.

Not sure if that's the case, but remember that you have to model with solids all the time. That is, never leave "open" faces that should be solid on "both sides", but instead use cubes. I think if you respect that, it will work nicely.

If that's not the case, send me the .obj and .skp file so I can give a look.

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Posted on 03-26-10 02:33:31 AM

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03-25-10 09:33:31 PM
Post #2956

I know emulators tend to HLE everything without enforcing the original limitations, but I'm wondering what all would limit the number of faces a level can have. I know in Mario Kart, the game divides tracks into sections so it can draw only the nearby faces, so the total number in a track is basically only limited by memory, as it's only rendering a small portion at any time. I suppose Mario 64 doesn't have such a system?

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Emoluvjd2
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Posted on 03-26-10 03:54:18 AM

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Originally posted by messiaen
Emoluvjd2: Well, I hope you are talking about the back face issues in SketchUp, which may generate collision errors.

Yes, I am. I fixed it by making all the back faces untextured and checking the export textured only feature in the plugin you supplied us with. It works really well for me now.

DarkSpacer
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Posted on 03-26-10 01:57:04 PM (last edited by DarkSpacer at 03-26-10 11:11 AM)

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Originally posted by HyperHacker
I know emulators tend to HLE everything without enforcing the original limitations, but I'm wondering what all would limit the number of faces a level can have. I know in Mario Kart, the game divides tracks into sections so it can draw only the nearby faces, so the total number in a track is basically only limited by memory, as it's only rendering a small portion at any time. I suppose Mario 64 doesn't have such a system?

It does for the inside of the castle and for Wet-Dry World. Those are the only levels I can think of.

Also there are more if youi count warps like the warp in Jolly Roger Bay to get inside the sunken ship (otherwise I think they would've allowed you to actually swim inside the ship without any type of warps).

Originally posted by messiaen
Not sure if that's the case, but remember that you have to model with solids all the time. That is, never leave "open" faces that should be solid on "both sides", but instead use cubes. I think if you respect that, it will work nicely.

But if you use cubes you're more likely to reach the polygon limit. But I see where you are: If you export faces which need to be solid on both sides, SM64 collision goes nuts and you're left with Mario stuck in a wall (and usually the only way to get out is to run into a corner).

We have a delima (or however you spell it). Which is better: More polygons or glitches fit for a king?

messiaen
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Posted on 03-26-10 03:35:45 PM

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Mario 64 usually renders (almost) everything all the time, unless the level uses the room system such as "Haze Maze" and "Inside Castle". I'm not even sure that system is to prevent useless rendering or to avoid unwanted parts of the level to be displayed because of the primitive camera system.

Also, There's no dillema. You can have incredible detailed levels, far surpassing any of the original ones in SM64 with 5000 faces or so. Surely I may test more and increase this limit, but it's too early since we haven't even seen a decent full level yet (imports don't count). With proper care and respect to the game limits, there probably won't be any serious collision problems.

Remember the playing area isn't that big (already tried expanding but ran into many collision and camera problems).

Emoluvjd2
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Posted on 03-26-10 03:48:22 PM

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Originally posted by HyperHacker
Try explaining your method so someone can point out the problem.

If you mean the textures, then I exported the model, the textures were right side up, but when imported they came out upside down. I re-imported it after vertically flipping the textures and it works just fine now, but the question is is this not supposed to happen?

DarkSpacer
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Posted on 03-26-10 04:59:22 PM (last edited by DarkSpacer at 03-26-10 02:01 PM)

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Originally posted by Emoluvjd2
Originally posted by HyperHacker
Try explaining your method so someone can point out the problem.

If you mean the textures, then I exported the model, the textures were right side up, but when imported they came out upside down. I re-imported it after vertically flipping the textures and it works just fine now, but the question is is this not supposed to happen?

I have a similar problem. When I export a level, it flips it left to right. So say I have a cube in the middle, and a cube on the left in Sketchup. When I import it into the game, I now have a cube in the middle, and a cube on the right.

And no, I don't have the level backwards. It dosen't turn it 180 degrees (at least I don't think it does). I don't know how to explain it. The cube idea was just an example.

EDIT: Better example: Say I have a building with stairs along the left wall in Sketchup. WHen I import it, the stairs are now along the right wall, the rest of the building (assuming it's symmetrical) stays the same.

Emoluvjd2
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Posted on 03-26-10 05:57:15 PM

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Originally posted by DarkSpacer
I have a similar problem. When I export a level, it flips it left to right. So say I have a cube in the middle, and a cube on the left in Sketchup. When I import it into the game, I now have a cube in the middle, and a cube on the right.

And no, I don't have the level backwards. It dosen't turn it 180 degrees (at least I don't think it does). I don't know how to explain it. The cube idea was just an example.

EDIT: Better example: Say I have a building with stairs along the left wall in Sketchup. WHen I import it, the stairs are now along the right wall, the rest of the building (assuming it's symmetrical) stays the same.

I also have this problem, it seems that once it's imported it is flipped horizontally. To fix it just flip it horizontally in your 3D modeler before exporting it to .obj.

Lyskar
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Posted on 03-28-10 11:05:04 PM

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Metal_Man88's Post

That is... that is a million times too complex for SM64 to handle.

I would suggest you try smaller, simpler models. And leave that one behind.

Otherwise, your silly questions will just have to be deleted.

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messiaen
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Posted on 03-28-10 11:18:18 PM

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Actually, that specific model would work, but you haven't exported it to the .obj format

(it's a SketchUp file).
The fact that you are using a very old version of the importer really puzzles me (or else, why should I even bother to reply your message when you don't follow this seemingly obvious 'rule') ?

Anyway, I'm taking a break from SM64 hacking (too much stuff to do and not much motivation), no idea when I will release a new version of the level importer.

Lyskar
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Posted on 03-28-10 11:52:09 PM

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Metal_Man88's Post

Hm. My bad... partially.

(Seeing as I was... correct in assuming something was very wrong with that question, just not what.)

In any case, Mr. "Zelda Immortal", do try updating to the latest version, otherwise your chances will remain zero.

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Posted on 03-29-10 11:00:41 AM

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Sorry Metal Man...
I Took a long break from SM64 Hacking To try and exterminate my inside Noob...

Lyskar
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Posted on 03-29-10 06:12:50 PM

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Metal_Man88's Post

Well, as long as you're trying to do that, you'll be okay.

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Rez2
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Posted on 03-30-10 04:18:50 PM

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So, at what point did you include the hidden 'Easter Eggs'?

messiaen
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Posted on 04-05-10 04:06:09 PM

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Rez2: They have been around since the first GUI version.

Decided to release v12 of the importer. New features are limited water/toxic haze/myst support (just one box), some bug fixes and an option to vertically flip textures. Also, the background importer now works much better (no more wrap problems), but the textures may still look a bit "blocky".

Hectamatatortron
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Posted on 04-05-10 10:06:27 PM

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Blocky, eh? When you import backgrounds, is your program having to actually massage the data to make it appropriate? Or is it just putting the user's input where it goes in the ROM after stripping the meta data associated with common image formats?

I know from experience what a pain it can be to format input image in a full color format to one that a Gameboy Advance, for example, can display...

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messiaen
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Posted on 04-05-10 11:49:26 PM (last edited by messiaen at 04-05-10 09:20 PM)

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Images are converted to 256x256, then to 32x32 tiles and finally to the RGBA 5551 format. All of this (except the final RGBA 5551 conversion) is done through an external program: ImageMagick's convert tool.

The "blocky" issues happens because I haven't taken care of this yet:

Originally posted by VL-Tone
Another thing to note: the relevant image part of each tile is actually 31x31 pixels. The horizontal and vertical 1 pixel lines that are left should be a repetition of the line before, or else you'll see "seam lines" in the sky around each tile. So the imported and exported background in TT64 will be 248x248 (8 lines are lost horizontally and vertically because they are repetitions).

Edit: Forgot to include in the previous post. V12 supports correctly 32x64 and 64x32 textures, which will allow for more detailed textures.

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