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Jul - Computers and Technology - 17-year-old MS security vulnerability found New poll - New thread - New reply
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Lyskar
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Posted on 02-18-10 07:24:58 AM Link | Quote

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Metal_Man88
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You know Windows.

It's a hackish collection of DOS scripts made somehow to boot without DOS, then hidden beneath a pile of fancy API gimmicks about 3 applications support, mixed with the Windows 95 API which is used by 90% of everything.

Vista and 7 up the ante by telling it to make the windows transparent, but ultimately this is the same as painting your nose blue and saying that because of that, you are now 110% better than your old self.

All the while, every new version is still riding on a pile of ancient code people have had years to pick at, opening up all kinds of pandora's boxes which effect every version.

They could just cut it down like Acmlm did and make it purely functional, then rebuild everything from scratch, but, it's easier to just add fancy visual effects cribbed from Apple and then go "These odd security holes never existed" "Our new Windows is actually new" "Your old version of Windows is obsolete even though all the major manufacturers of hardware and software still support it."

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Rena
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Posted on 02-20-10 11:53:07 PM Link | Quote
02-20-10 06:53:07 PM
Post #2828
Well, no... Windows is an OS. An OS with a lot of bugs, that developers have (sometimes with no choice) relied on and worked around. And there are a lot of programs for it. It now has a lot of bugs that, if fixed, will break a lot of programs. They're kinda stuck.
They made some mistakes when they designed Windows. They didn't plan ahead, they emphasized speed over security and stability, and they bent over backwards hacking their own APIs to make buggy programs, which should never have worked in the first place but by luck did until a certain version, continue working. Good for business in the short term, bad for development in the long run.
Somewhere on one of the developers' blogs, they explain why DOS/Windows uses \ as a directory separator: because before they implemented subdirectories, they already used / to specify arguments to a program, and it'd be difficult to tell the difference. You think they'd have looked ahead and said "we're going to want subdirectory support at some point", but no.

(BTW, what's funny about a lot of the "new" features in Vista and 7 is that they've been in Linux, the Mac OSes, and in some cases even XP for ages. )

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Gywah

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Posted on 02-22-10 03:00:53 AM Link | Quote

Originally posted by HyperHacker

(BTW, what's funny about a lot of the "new" features in Vista and 7 is that they've been in Linux, the Mac OSes, and in some cases even XP for ages. )


You mean like how the "snap" feature is being touted as the second coming of Christ, despite the fact it's been in almost every OS, including XP for decades?

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Shadic
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Posted on 02-22-10 03:53:34 AM Link | Quote
Gywah

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Posted on 02-22-10 04:54:41 AM Link | Quote

They need to fund the shit out of Wine, then use it as a compatibility layer in an OS of their own.

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Shadic
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Posted on 02-22-10 05:39:11 AM Link | Quote
Sukasa

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Posted on 02-22-10 02:56:36 PM Link | Quote

Isn't that was XP Mode was supposed to do originally?

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Lyskar
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Posted on 02-22-10 08:23:45 PM (last edited by Metal_Man88 at 02-22-10 05:24 PM) Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
Yeah, they just stupidly forgot to make the main system incompatible and make XP mode available to all versions of 7.

(As then they could force programs to be less hackish.)

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Shadic
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Posted on 02-22-10 08:45:40 PM Link | Quote
Lyskar
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Posted on 02-22-10 09:36:41 PM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
It's simple, really--just keep a compatibility layer and make everything have to work with the new, cleaner guidelines. Then when issues occur with security in the compatibility layer, go "Well, that's why you need to upgrade those applications!"

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Posted on 02-22-10 09:40:52 PM Link | Quote
Thank goodness for emulation and virtual machines.

Yes, I plan to still use DOS, 16-bit Windows, and Commodore 64 software (games, mostly) until I die, in some form or other. Even if I'm running an emulator in another emulator in a VM in another VM all within another emulator.

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Lyskar
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Posted on 02-22-10 09:49:11 PM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
I continue to use the same cloud of early windows 95 applications.

Heck, WS_FPT 95 LE is faster and more effective than the new ones. I remember Xeron/Digi being impressed at how fast I uploaded my whole website all at once.

All that fancy new stuff doesn't make the program faster, after all.

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Posted on 02-22-10 11:04:04 PM Link | Quote




#52
I still use WS_FTP LE too (too bad it doesn't support SFTP), and have been using Paint Shop Pro 4 for 12 years ... why upgrade to new bloated programs when the older ones can do it just fine, and faster

I also wish XP SP2 (or even SP3) wasn't a minimum requirement for so many things now (just thankful that hasn't moved up to Vista or 7 yet), because I can't think of a single Windows feature introduced after XP RTM (or 2000, other than ClearType) that I really feel I need


Originally posted by Gywah
Originally posted by HyperHacker

(BTW, what's funny about a lot of the "new" features in Vista and 7 is that they've been in Linux, the Mac OSes, and in some cases even XP for ages. :eng101: )
You mean like how the "snap" feature is being touted as the second coming of Christ, despite the fact it's been in almost every OS, including XP for decades?
I remember looking at Microsoft's XP/Vista/7 feature comparison and thinking it was pretty funny how XP is supposedly lacking features I've been using for years Here's some of them:

  • Find files and programs instantly:
    Search is only one button press away (F3), and XP's Explorer with a minimal interface does the job better and faster than Vista's could ever hope to
  • Open the programs and files you use most in just a click or two:
    Windows 98 and 95+IE4 would like to remind you about that little thing called "QuickLaunch"
  • Navigate lots of open windows more quickly:
    I do that just fine with my dual screen setup
  • Easily share files, photos, and music among multiple PCs at home:
    network drives, anyone? That even works between 98 and XP
  • Print to a single printer from any PC in the house:
    I've printed on a network shared printer before, with NT 4
  • Built-in protection against spyware and other malicious software:
    last I checked, Windows XP SP2 introduced that
  • Help keep your data private and secure:
    see NTFS encryption, or passworded archives
  • Create and share movies and slideshows in minutes:
    XP already had the well overused Movie Maker
  • Get the most realistic game graphics and vivid multi-media:
    does any game even require DirectX 10 or 11 yet?

And don't forget that one article joking about how XP is an upgrade from Vista, even listing XP's improvements over Vista

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Lyskar
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Posted on 02-23-10 03:55:16 AM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
Yeah... Vista's only addition is fancy graphix and... well... that whole hideous LESS effective file transfer dialog.

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Posted on 02-23-10 06:21:31 AM Link | Quote
Aero snap? Pft, just ctrl-click the windows you want, right click and select "Tile Vertically"

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Lyskar
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Posted on 02-23-10 06:29:09 AM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
I have to wonder...

I swear I saw something similar to that in Windows 3.1 even.

The thing is, Microsoft seems to selectively wait and popularize features long after they've been made.

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Taryn

Passed away.

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Posted on 02-23-10 12:23:30 PM (last edited by Terra at 02-23-10 09:23 AM) Link | Quote
I remember Windows 3.1 allowing you to copy files in 1 step by typing in a destination in addition to the 2-step clipboard operation.

Said 1-step copy was removed in Windows 95. You could do it from the DOS prompt, but you had to change the directory first so it wasn't as convenient.

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paulguy

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Posted on 02-23-10 06:24:35 PM Link | Quote
Paulguy's Post configuration
You're correct about windows 3.1, I believe. In Program Manager: Window -> Tile Vertically/Tile Horizontally/Cascade. Not sure how it handled programs that didn't like being resized, though. Pretty much every MDI program back then had it like file manager and even AOL if I remember correctly. Unfortunately, tiling isn't terribly useful when you're running at 640x480. :p

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Lyskar
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Posted on 02-24-10 01:03:27 AM Link | Quote
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Ah, right.

I remember seeing something like it in Win 3.1 and going "...What's the point?"

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Shadic
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Posted on 02-24-10 02:24:16 AM Link | Quote
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Jul - Computers and Technology - 17-year-old MS security vulnerability found New poll - New thread - New reply


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