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Jul - SM64 Hacking (Archive) - Toad's Tool 0.6.0 (On hiatus for an indefinite amount of time) New poll - New thread - Thread closed
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Polygon model importer, how soon do you want it?
Please vote or be transformed into Walluigi!
Now! Even if it means it will be buggy and limited to a single untextured model!
 
 11.4%, 14 votes
I could wait a month for more features and textured model import.
 
 22.8%, 28 votes
I want all the features you can cram in, even if it means waiting indefinitely!
 
 56.9%, 70 votes
You shouldn't have announced anything and released it when ready!
 
 4.1%, 5 votes
Me don't care!
 
 4.9%, 6 votes
Multi-voting is disabled. 123 users have voted.

VL-Tone
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Posted on 08-25-09 04:16:04 AM Link
Time: One second ago - Date: Tomorrow - Weather: Sunshine - Mood: Moody Answer to the universe: Yes
Originally posted by Metal_Man88
That's a bit unfair to Messaien and some others, who do do some work.

It is true he does a lot of work though.


I did a lot of work, but I don't do that much these days when it comes to SM64. Messiaen does some amazing things on his own, anyone saw the latest version SM64 fireball powerup hack? Or the new protective shell powerup? Check it out on his youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/frauber

Anyway back to TT64. Not much progress since the last time, but here are some screenshots, as promised:


That's the "Sky Swapper" module, which you may have seen before, but I added more thumbnail space to accommodate custom sky backgrounds that will be used by the level importer.


This is the new main interface for the level editor, now in "Widescreen". I integrated the new copy/paste/duplcate and align buttons.

I must admit that I find the interface to be overcrowded now. It can be intimidating for novices. I guess I could remove a lot of the interface (including the newly added buttons) and hide everything in standard menus. It's nice though to have everything only one click away.

I don't think about doing any major interface changes to make it simpler and less crowded for version 0.6b, but I'm thinking about it maybe for 0.7b. I would certainly would like to avoid another review like the one from Destructoid when TT64 was first released, with this nice screenshot caption:



Anyway back to the new module menu:


From left to right: Level Editor, Preferences, Texture Editor, Sky Swapper, Level Importer, Text Wrangler. These Icons are not final, if you have suggestions for icons, go ahead.

When you click on the icon on the top left of a module, little icons slide from under it and enable you to switch to any other module. When you click on one, the icons slide back under, with the one you choose sliding on top, which becomes the icon for the current module. It's a neat but somehow useless animation.

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messiaen
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Posted on 08-25-09 02:29:29 PM Link
Looking nice! I wouldn't worry much about the crowded interface, interested people will get over it . It's a complex game, so its unreasonable to expect a very easy to use editor.

Is the background importer already functional? I would love to see a screenshot of a custom background.
Devin175
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Posted on 08-25-09 03:18:10 PM Link
Nice job VL-tone, don't worry about making it easier, people will have to learn it that's all.
gamekrazzy
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Posted on 08-26-09 04:22:36 AM Link
Looking great VL-Tone. I can't wait to use the custom background feature.

The menu looks pretty good.

BTW instead of going through all the work of making it simpler why don't you include a manual of simple stuff people have done with it and include info on the new stuff so that the noobs get an understanding before using it.

For instance warps.

Alot of noobs have trouble with that, I know I did.

Anyways I just think that by making everything simpler would be alot of unneeded work.

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Lyskar
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Posted on 08-26-09 04:51:26 AM Link

Time/Date

08-25-09 10:51:26pm

Posts

3279

Days Here

784

Level

83
Metal_Man88
Local Moderator
Yeah, your editor already makes very difficult and/or time consuming programming tasks into point and click operations. Whomever wrote that image clearly had no clue how complex it is to modify a 3D game... especially one as primitive as SM64 can be.

It makes sense to me... and my only experience is religiously reading all the posts in the forum. Keep up the good work.

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BigBrain
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Posted on 08-26-09 08:21:27 AM Link
I agree that you shouldn't spend too much time on improving the UI, but moving rarely used funtionality like the undo, copy-paste stuff or the rendering options into menus would improve the interface a lot already IMO.


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VideoGuy
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Posted on 08-26-09 04:21:43 PM Link
I agree that menus would be nice, but don't make those your #1 priority.

Your UI takes a bunch of random hex numbers and makes it into an extremely usable program. SM64 is not as simple as Super Mario World, and will never be as easy to use as Lunar Magic. But if anything, that will help us avoid a ton of crap hacks, and instead get stuff made by people who wanted to make something great with SM64. Don't worry about oversimplifying it for this release. Maybe in 0.8 you can make a noob-friendly version, but for now all we want is something functional.

Think of it like Adobe Flash. If someone download's that off Adobe's site, they can't just draw a few things and make a game instantly. As a result, Flash games on the internet tend to be higher-quality. Wait a second...no they aren't...
Aamelo
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Posted on 08-27-09 08:49:17 PM Link
Anesum (yeah, anesum)

Finaly i will have the power of level editing in my hands!

HIDE MARIO! HIDE!
gamekrazzy
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Posted on 08-29-09 01:50:01 AM (last edited by gamekrazzy at 08-28-09 10:50 PM) Link
Hey VL-Tone.
IDK if you are planning on adding the options for more then 1 area in a level, but if you are I believe I have found a way to do it.
The only problem is that for some reason TT64 can't read the level. Maybe it's because the way you made TT64 read the area 2 is conflicting with how I made the level.

Anyways here is what I did. Also I did try playing it and the level played fine, which is indeed what lead me to believe the conflict thing. Anyways maybe this will be usefull with TT64 6.0.
_______________________________________________

Note: I shortened the data here because these are basically the notes I took. check VL-Tone's flat world documentation for a better understanding.
________KEY____________________________________

[][][] - [0x24 and down. Ends at [20 04 00 00]]
_______________________________________________

30 04 00 00
36 08 00 00 00 03 00 00
31 04 00 00
20 04 00 00
1F 08 02 00 0E 00 00 08

[][][]

1E 04 00 00
2B 0C 01 00 00 87 E6 62 00 00 19 40
11 08 00 00 80 24 BC D8
12 08 00 01 80 24 BC D8
1C 04 00 00
04 04 00 01
02 04 00 00

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Breegullbeak
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Posted on 08-29-09 09:20:00 PM Link
What kind of models would the importer use, because I have just about all the Banjo Kazooie Models thanks to the also under construction bottles glasses thanks to cooliscool of the RWP. Their obj files and some of them are the actual levels so I'd love to be able to import them.
Bob-omb8194
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Posted on 08-29-09 09:26:45 PM Link
The New TT64 use obj models for the importer. (I can't seem to get/make any good models, though.) You'll have to get the textures from Banjo-Kazooie if you are going to use the levels, though. (Unless you have custom textures or you are going to use SM64 textures)

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Breegullbeak
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Posted on 08-29-09 09:36:35 PM Link
Originally posted by Bob-omb8194
The New TT64 use obj models for the importer. (I can't seem to get/make any good models, though.) You'll have to get the textures from Banjo-Kazooie if you are going to use the levels, though. (Unless you have custom textures or you are going to use SM64 textures)

The program exports the model and it's textures.
Stevoisiak
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Posted on 08-29-09 10:32:28 PM Link
Originally posted by Breegullbeak
What kind of models would the importer use, because I have just about all the Banjo Kazooie Models thanks to the also under construction bottles glasses thanks to cooliscool of the RWP. Their obj files and some of them are the actual levels so I'd love to be able to import them.

Wow. That's what I was gonna do. Now I need new models to import!

Anyways, he has mentioned that the importing format is obj. (How convinient)

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Devin175
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Posted on 08-29-09 11:34:03 PM Link
The obj. importer is what I'm really excited about.
luigiman1928
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Posted on 09-04-09 08:06:55 PM (last edited by luigiman1928 at 09-08-09 10:28 AM) Link
Well person who's name i cant read due to the big N00B sign, i think were all excited about it. Have you seen Messaien(aka frauber)'s newest Mario Death Magnet? CUSTOM BEHAVIORS! This will make for the most awesome HaX in SM64 History.

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VL-Tone
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Posted on 09-09-09 02:14:24 AM Link
Time: One second ago - Date: Tomorrow - Weather: Sunshine - Mood: Moody Answer to the universe: Yes
Here are some progress updates:
I've modified the "custom level file" format to take the multi-texture aspect into account.

Here's how a typical file might look: 

*** Toad's Tool 64 Custom Level File

version :1

clevelenabledf :1

currentclevel :1

currentreplace :0

clevelkeepobjects :0

objoffsetx :0

objoffsety :0

objoffsetz :0

levelscale :478.3796

dfoffset :-8000

numobjects :150

bank1 :4

bank2 :15

bank3 :19

mtl_start :1

mtl_name :Material_859F5764577B5A2C81347

mtl_collistype :2A

mtl_usealpha :0

mtl_texturescaleS :50

mtl_texturescaleT :50

mtl_texturedata :32

783010FF783010FF70281...


The hex part at the end of this example is the beginning of a texture data encoded in hex. Each material will have its parameters and bitmap data included between "mtl_start" and "mtl_end" commands. At the end of the level file there's the "objfile" command which is followed by the .obj data the user imported in this level.

Here's an example of a complete custom level file: http://homepage.mac.com/qubedstudios/clevelfileexample.t64.txt

As I've explained before, custom level files will contain all the data needed to reconstruct a custom level, for example if you decide to put you custom level in another ROM, and it's also useful for when you reimport an .obj file while keeping the rest of the parameters intact.

Something that is still missing in the file is the level object list (ie. 0x24 objects) since I'm still not clear about how I'll implement the "Keep existing objects" system.

Also, custom backgrounds (sky) for custom levels won't be included in the custom level file, as they would take too much space encoded in hex. Unlike the rest though, these won't be erased each time you re-save a level to ROM, but you'll have to reimport them when moving a level to a different ROM (or slot).

Other stuff I've worked on:

Creating a widget for the material list that also include thumbnails besides the name, since Director doesn't include a standard scrolling list widget that can include graphics.



Still missing is the scrollbar, which I'll have to code myself. While I'm doing that I might as well create my own re-usable scrolling list widget that I could use for other parts of the interface, like the object lists in the level editor module.

Since I've upgraded to Director 11.5 I've had problems with the .fontstyle function when trying to set the style and color of individual lines in text lists (noticed how the command list is all red in the latest screenshot of the level editor interface?). Using a custom list widget would give me better control over that and I could use actual highlights for selected items instead of simply underlining. I could also add icon previews in the object list, and an optional icon-only grid menu to select objects.

Speaking of the object list, I've experimented with a search/filter function for the yellow list and it turns out it would be relatively easy to implement (with or without the new scrolling list widget). So let's say you are looking for Yoshi, instead of scrolling down until you get to the Yoshi item, you could just type "Yoshi" in the search field, and it would filter out everything except lines containing the word "Yoshi".

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Dialga
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Posted on 09-09-09 04:54:43 AM Link
Someone please tell me how to make a good looking layout

-That sounds cool =)

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Stevoisiak
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Posted on 09-09-09 07:33:34 PM Link
Originally posted by VL-Tone
Here are some progress updates:

*insert long update post here*



This is great! The search feature will make editing alot easier too. Also, it seems that your very hard at work with smaller programing issues. You consider having another programer help, or asking advice on director forums?

Anyways, it seems that even if there were no model importation, this would be the best update yet!

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VL-Tone
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Posted on 09-10-09 04:13:55 AM Link
Time: One second ago - Date: Tomorrow - Weather: Sunshine - Mood: Moody Answer to the universe: Yes
I'm sure your suggestions are well intentioned Stevoisiak, but the problem is not there.

I've asked about my .fontstyle bug problem on director forum, and they couldn't really help me, as it's a bug introduced in Director 11.5.

Aside from that, I don't have any problem coding, I rarely get stuck asking myself "which command can I use to program feature X?", and when I have to I do ask/look for answers. I've been programming with Director for 15 years or so, starting with version 3.1.

Maybe I make some issues sound harder than they are, because my main problem is the lack of time and energy I can devote to TT64. Some of these issues can be resolved in an hour or two, but that's a lot considering the amount of time I devote to programming outside of my job.

In theory, a second programmer could help about the lack of time issue, but in practice I would probably spend more time explaining what I want and how TT64 is programmed than doing it myself.

But most of the problems I've had while building the importer have to do with interface and technical design choices, and other Director programmers wouldn't be better than you guys at helping me with these decisions, since they don't know anything about TT64 and the limitations of the SM64 format. That's why I've been exposing some of my interface design dilemmas on this forum instead of on a Director forum.




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luigiman1928
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Posted on 09-14-09 08:40:07 PM (last edited by luigiman1928 at 09-17-09 07:26 PM) Link
Really? Making it so that the models can have different sounds when stepped on? Simply, amazing. oh wow. You guys just took a joke so seriously. Wow.

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Jul - SM64 Hacking (Archive) - Toad's Tool 0.6.0 (On hiatus for an indefinite amount of time) New poll - New thread - Thread closed


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