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05-04-22 12:17:38 PM
Jul - News - So the crazies are starting up again New poll - New thread - New reply
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Xkeeper

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Posted on 04-16-09 10:07:54 PM Link | Quote
No, not these ones.


So after Texas did this and "Texas Can Leave Union If It Wants To", I went to look up and see if there was anything, you know. Believable.

So to Google we go... Oh this is gold.

From the FAQ:

The Confederate States (including Texas) withdrew from the Union lawfully, civilly, and peacefully ...

Timeline of events leading to the American Civil War, 1861:

  • Numerous compromise proposals are rejected; they all involve protection of slavery (none involve tariffs or economic deals); Confederacy demands complete independence and will not negotiate a return to the Union.
  • Confederates capture US arsenals and forts in CSA states; General David E. Twiggs surrenders one-fourth of US Army in Texas, then joins Confederacy.
  • President Buchanan decides not to order Major Anderson out of Fort Sumter in Charleston harbor[1]
  • CSA army fired on Fort Sumter; it surrenders.
  • Northern uprising—mass meetings everywhere to demand Lincoln overthrow the rebellion.



Yes, "civilly" and "peacefully". I'm not a Constitution scholar so I'm not going to delve into "lawfully" but judging from the rest of this page, that part's bullshit too. (Gotta love the part where they claim that they're under the Constitution, but not the President or Congress. Must've missed the part where the Constitution specifies the other ones, eh?)

... From their FAQ:

... after enduring several decades of excessive and inequitable federal tariffs (taxes) heavily prejudiced against Southern commerce.

Article on the American Civil War:

Southern fears of losing control of the federal government to antislavery forces, and Northern fears that the slave power already controlled the government, brought the crisis to a head in the late 1850s. Sectional disagreements over the morality of slavery, the scope of democracy and the economic merits of free labor vs. slave plantations caused the Whig and "Know-Nothing" parties to collapse, and new ones to arise (the Free Soil Party in 1848, the Republicans in 1854, the Constitutional Union in 1860). In 1860, the last remaining national political party, the Democratic Party, split along sectional lines.
Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens said[12][13] that slavery was the chief cause of secession[14] in his Cornerstone Speech shortly before the war.


It's extremely hard to take this whole movement seriously if they can't even get their facts straight (see also teabagging thread)

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Hiryuu

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Posted on 04-17-09 12:21:22 AM Link | Quote
May as well quote the front page while you're at it...


"Texas is a free and independent State ... All political power is inherent in the people ... they have at all times the inalienable right to alter their government in such manner as they might think proper."
Texas Constitution (1876)



"Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed... Whenever government becomes destructive to life, liberty, or property [i.e., the pursuit of happiness], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it... It is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."
American Declaration of Independence (1776)


Once again...Constitution and Founding Fathers is big in discussion right now. Perhaps because you aren't near the source of this you can easily shrug this off and call it lunacy but I'm next door to this. This isn't just a few people thinking this either...this is more than just one state.

I said this in March when Chuck Norris mentioned that he may run for the President...in that state. I was shrugged off. People keep on thinking that this isn't going to boil over and that this is a bunch of talk that will get nowhere.

I would give it time. The way things are going and the way the talk continues to boil with each passing day...you're going to get your secession within a year. Do I necessarily stand by it? Not sure at this point...but I would honestly think that Texas does have a point with their claims to the tenth amendment - they do have state rights and the government is getting to the point where it is unnecessarily imposing on them and everything that is being argued against the government is being considered right-wing extremism and 'Astroturf' if it comes from normal people that aren't associated with anything...

In any case, it's not like anyone's going to do anything to strongly combat what's brewing in Texas. It'll just be what everyone including this thread is doing...mocking it because they don't believe it'll happen. And when it does happen in the end and for whatever reason in buckles into a stabbing point of a second civil war, which is now feasible thanks to everything that's been boiling as of late...well, I just hope you're not surprised.

I also hope some of you know what survival is...that too has also been a topic that has been massively brewing as of late that the media most assuredly does not want to be made known. Ammunition isn't being bought just for the killings and murders of other people as some would suggest...maybe that'll give you a hint...

But hey...for those that aren't into politics, just remain willfully ignorant until Hell freezes over...large majority of Americans are like this anyways.

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Posted on 04-17-09 12:26:40 AM (last edited by Xkeeper at 04-16-09 09:30 PM) Link | Quote

Perhaps because you aren't near the source of this you can easily shrug this off and call it lunacy but I'm next door to this.

LET'S GO TO FIELD REPORTER RIKETZ KARLOM!!

18:22'01" Xkeeper: so hey, mr. texan
18:22'06" Xkeeper: what do you think of texas leaving the union
18:22'13" Riketz: huh
18:22'24" Xkeeper: standard nutters are throwing out the idea
18:22'55" Riketz: i think this place sucks and needs to sink to the bottom of the ocean
18:23'02" Riketz: it leaving earth would be much better
18:23'27" Riketz: oops
18:23'34" Riketz: i meant to say
18:24'03" Riketz: DURHUR!!! YEEEHAWWWW!!! TEXAS IS FORTIFIED BY MAGICAL JESUS ARMOR AND COWBOY RIFLES! WE DON'T NEED NOBODY!!!
18:24'56" Riketz: SHUCKS AIN'T HOOTINANNY HORSE CHURCH MILLER LITE!!!
18:25'14" Riketz: -whurrr crackle bzzzt fzzz-


Maybe we could get Bugs to do it.



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Hiryuu

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Posted on 04-17-09 12:28:33 AM Link | Quote
Heh.

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Posted on 04-17-09 12:32:24 AM Link | Quote
Well, that's pretty much the closest you can get.


18:29'39" Xkeeper: p.s. what backdump village do you live in again
18:29'44" Xkeeper: I know it was sugarland but then you moved
18:29'47" Riketz: crosby
18:29'57" Riketz: N.E. of houston
18:30'02" Riketz: near highway 90
18:30'10" Xkeeper: wow, a population of 1.7 thousand
18:30'19" Riketz: yes
18:30'29" Riketz: i told you, this is butt fuck nowhere


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emcee
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Posted on 04-17-09 05:21:06 AM Link | Quote
So what, specifically, has the Federal government done recently that should be considered a violation of the 10th Amendment?
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Posted on 04-17-09 07:02:18 AM Link | Quote

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Metal_Man88
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My question is simple: How does one secede from the USA when it possesses nuclear weapons?

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Xkeeper

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Posted on 04-17-09 07:14:59 AM Link | Quote
Sounds like the other higherups in the state don't agree.

Not that this is at all surprising.

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emcee
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Posted on 04-17-09 07:02:41 PM Link | Quote
On the upside, if Texas were to secede, the entire "Republic of Texas" makes one heck of a border fence.
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Posted on 04-18-09 07:08:46 AM Link | Quote
Don't see it happening at all until a state gets all its essential services and finances in order.

Look at Quebec. Quebec's tried to separate from Canada before. In the recent election, the Parti Quebecois (i.e. the separatists) specifically said that they would *NOT* call a referendum if they were elected because there were more important issues (budget, health care, education, etc.) to take care of first. Think about that; for once we had an election not centered around that topic.

House needs to be in order before you can think of moving out.

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Posted on 04-18-09 06:43:07 PM Link | Quote

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Metal_Man88
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Sad but true; even if there was perfect reason to leave, it is about the same as my situation right now--I can't make enough money to support myself yet, so I have no business leaving until I can.

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Posted on 04-19-09 10:21:30 PM Link | Quote
The supreme court ruled in Texas v. White that Texas had remained a state of the United States ever since it first joined the Union, despite its joining the Confederate States of America and its being under military rule at the time of the decision in the case. It further held that the Constitution did not permit states to secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null".

I don't think Texas can legally leave the union now, but I'm not a legal expert so don't quote me on that.
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Posted on 04-19-09 11:44:23 PM Link | Quote
That's 'addressed' in the FAQ that Xkeeper linked to. They have a pretty long write up, but it basically boils down "Yeah, well the supreme court was wrong". It doesn't really work that way though, whether you agree with them or not, their decisions are pretty much by definition right.
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Posted on 04-20-09 11:57:57 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by emcee
That's 'addressed' in the FAQ that Xkeeper linked to. They have a pretty long write up, but it basically boils down "Yeah, well the supreme court was wrong". It doesn't really work that way though, whether you agree with them or not, their decisions are pretty much by definition right.

Exactly. You don't get out of jail by saying "Well what I did wasn't illegal in my mind". It does not work that way.

Also, what's even more fun is looking up their budget; way, way too much comes out of Federal funding to be able to just leave without killing their state.

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