Jul -- News: Teabagg'n really just load of bullshit

Xkeeper

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Posted on 04-14-09 10:09:26 PM

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Originally posted by Sakura
Man...I'm just not going to go any further than if it was up to Barrack Obama, there wouldn't BE a Constitution.

What?

Please, provide some evidence on what he's done to even damage the constitution, much less remove it.

Especially in comparison to Bush, the guys you elected back in 2000 and 2004, who thought he might as well be above the law, was more than happy to shred the Fourth Amendment, shit on the First Amendment, and a whole bunch of other shit.

So please, by all means. How about some SOLID FUCKING PROOF instead of all of this FUD?

It's in his way. This is why you have what's going to happen tomorrow.

If you don't get this, I don't know what else I'm supposed to say to convince you otherwise. People are VERY afraid of the loss of rights under Obama and many remain blissfully unaware of this.

But...like everything...you'll figure it out soon enough.

Again: I don't give a fucking shit if you're "afraid" of something until you actually can show what you're afraid of and why.

Until you do that, it's just like being scared of the big bad boogey man in the closet that you can't be assed to open and shine a flashlight on.

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Posted on 04-14-09 10:28:44 PM

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I don't know if this has anything to do with what's going on tomorrow, but from what I've seen I know several of my ex-employees who still don't have a job and are having trouble finding them, I make less than 30K a year and for some reason had to pay 1300+ in taxes that I don't have, my dad, thankfully he has insurance because if he didn't his hospital bill would have been over 3500+, so I don't know what to make of all this. I know people who are going, as mentioned before but I don't think it's going to help anything. I think it's going to make it worse. I think everything needs to fall and crumble before it's set back to normal again. But then again, ever since I was a kid I knew something was wrong. My family didn't have much to eat and our pets ate more than we did at times. Now the trailer park that I lived in for 19 years is gone. The entire place, gone. Yes, the man who owns that property has the right to do whatever he wants, and that place was filled with crime, gangs, sex, drugs and so on, but I still feel bad for those people who didn't get into that crap and have to deal with leaving. But I might just be waaay off topic here and I really need to get going. Half the time I don't know what to fell/say/think/write/whatever. I just hope this doesn't get out of hand. But it could be too late for that. Okay, end this rant. Heh, I still think we need to get rid of money all together, but that's just me and I've already been in a debate for about 3 hours over that matter and other things that deal with tomorrow and what have you...okay, I need to stop typing... ____________________

Tanks

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Posted on 04-14-09 10:32:22 PM

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Originally posted by Xkeeper
So please, by all means. How about some SOLID FUCKING PROOF instead of all of this FUD?

GM. That about does it.

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Xkeeper

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Posted on 04-14-09 10:40:39 PM

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Originally posted by Anya

FYI, the whole "tea party" bullshit is strictly about people thinking taxes are too high, none of that stuff. :|

Originally posted by Shantae
GM.

What? I was asking for specifics.

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Posted on 04-15-09 12:33:57 AM

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Yea, but I thought it was more than protesting the taxes. ____________________

Lyskar
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Posted on 04-15-09 05:26:52 AM

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What's to protest about the protests? The teabagging thing is a hilarious, stupid idea which makes anyone who participate in it look childish and ridiculous. I, for one, wish for more of these, so that there be more comedy material to chuckle at.

It's the Glen Becks and their insane madness, and this idiotic belief that Obama would remove the constitution, which is ridiculous and can and will wind up causing people getting guns and shooting stuff. In fact, Glen Beck's ideas are in line with Timothy McVeigh's, the man who blew up the state building and killed people.

Yup. It's patriotic and defending your rights to kill a bunch of people over imaginary fears.

But you can't talk with people who believe these things. They're just too stupid to reason with.

They won't listen to logic.

They won't GIVE any logical reason for their beliefs.

They're just out of their minds.

'Nuff said.

I guarantee you even if Obama himself made his policy STRICTLY about protecting the constitution, these people would be unmoved. Afraid of their own shadow, they strike at things which do not exist.

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Posted on 04-15-09 01:22:23 PM

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Originally posted by Metal_Man88 It's the Glen Becks and their insane madness, and this idiotic belief that Obama would remove the constitution, which is ridiculous and can and will wind up causing people getting guns and shooting stuff. In fact, Glen Beck's ideas are in line with Timothy McVeigh's, the man who blew up the state building and killed people. I know people who are truly scared for what might happen. And some of them have gotten guns to protect themselves in case riots happen. To protect their home and family, not to go out to kill random people. Not everyone is like that Not everyone on the right is a nut job and not everyone on the left is a nut job. It's just those nuts jobs out there who make it bad for the ones who are not and for the ones who are trying to make things correct the right way. ____________________

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Posted on 04-15-09 02:44:24 PM (last edited by Sakura at 04-15-09 12:20 PM)

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Originally posted by Xkeeper
Originally posted by Shantae
GM.

What? I was asking for specifics.

You've not been keeping up with the government taking over GM?

By the by...there really is no leader in all of these tea parties today...which apparently you guys are under the impression that there is. These would be considered grass-root movements. Like I said earlier, these are movements by people that are generally discontent with the way Obama is running this country. This isn't ABOUT lobbyists at all.

And I'm not surprised McVeigh's now part of this...may as well be since he's the fractional exception to the right wing movement. Anything to make the left look good, right?

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Lyskar
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Posted on 04-15-09 04:47:27 PM (last edited by Metal_Man88 at 04-15-09 01:50 PM)

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Originally posted by Anya
Originally posted by Metal_Man88
It's the Glen Becks and their insane madness, and this idiotic belief that Obama would remove the constitution, which is ridiculous and can and will wind up causing people getting guns and shooting stuff. In fact, Glen Beck's ideas are in line with Timothy McVeigh's, the man who blew up the state building and killed people.

I know people who are truly scared for what might happen. And some of them have gotten guns to protect themselves in case riots happen. To protect their home and family, not to go out to kill random people. Not everyone is like that Not everyone on the right is a nut job and not everyone on the left is a nut job. It's just those nuts jobs out there who make it bad for the ones who are not and for the ones who are trying to make things correct the right way.

I'm not saying everyone on the right's a nutjob; I'm saying words like these below are nutjobbery.

Originally posted by Glen Beck
You can’t convince me that the Founding Fathers wouldn’t allow you to secede.

Hmm... yeah... that Abraham Lincoln guy was pretty uptight about that, wasn't he? Oh wait... wasn't he a... Republican???

Besides that, I have no problem with the remaining Republicans who haven't stooped to this insanity, like Ken Starr. And heck, George Bush looks like a shining beacon of hope compared to what's going on in the Republican party right now.

But advocating things like Operation Vampire Killer, the same book Timothy McVeigh liked, not to mention speaking of 'resisting the government' and how it's gonna 'take all the guns away' (oddly, I have yet to see any legislation going through on that front, nor do I think that'd be very popular stuff that'd get approved any time soon...) is practically asking for crazy people to get guns and just start shooting things.

And yes, I will give to the GOP side that, due to being so horribly splintered, this is merely a case of the vocal crazies seizing the empty power vacuum. I have no doubt that out there, there remain sane Republicans. I have no problem with them either.

But back to my main point, what exactly is the Tea Bag party protesting? Taxes which were voted on and continued by George Bush and the Republican legislature being due? Being taxed and having representation? A protest against Obama taking away the rights of the people by allowing them to protest freely and post it all over the place? Future tax increases causing the richest top part of America to pay still less taxes than they had under Reagan?

To quote Jon Stewart, I think the GOP has confused tyranny with losing. For those who still don't get what I'm saying, how about this--how'd you feel if I went on a crazy tangent about resisting the government, demanding more taxes, and telling people I know to prepare to resist the government when Bush was elected?

Yeah. That's sort of what it looks like right now.

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Tanks

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Posted on 04-15-09 07:50:03 PM

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If it's so serious about the crazy right-wingers and their fear of fire arm restrictions, why doesn't the democrat party denounce those in its party who want to restrict them? Can't blame the republicans; It's the democrats who keep saying stuff.

Of course you're trying to make a point that the republicans are asserting this 'idea' that the democrats will soon make the restrictions law, but would it not be best for the democrats to say they're not? I mean, for one, they'd quell the nut jobs, and they'd also one up the republicans.

Originally posted by Glen Beck
You can’t convince me that the Founding Fathers wouldn’t allow you to secede.

Also, I believe the point Glenn Beck was making was that due to America's current state, the founding fathers would allow secession form the union. I'll just leave that as his opinion. I, personally, do not think secession is necessary as of right now.

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Posted on 04-15-09 08:40:36 PM

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Anya: it isn't about making everybody on the right out to be complete nutjobs, it's stroking the paranoia and fear that is causing them to snap and go on killing rampages.

Case in point.

The day after the Binghamton massacre, three officers were murdered in Pittsburgh, ambushed by a white supremacist with an AK-47 assault rifle. This maniac, who also owned a .357 Magnum and other high-caliber pistols, was said to be enraged because he thought President Obama was scheming to confiscate his guns.

When you are telling these people that OBAMAZ GUNNA TAKE AWAY YER GUNS, a baseless lie, what do you expect them to do? When you tell them to get ready stand up and fight to take back their rights, what do you think they're going to do?

On that note, Tanks, unless you have proof of a significant movement in Congress to ban guns (which there isn't and likely never will be, fyi), shut up. There's a bill that was introduced two/three weeks ago that would basically give the Gov't unlimited supervising powers over the internet and all encryption protocols. Why isn't there mass hysteria over that? Right, because it isn't going anywhere.

I like this too.

America's firearms policies, dominated by an uncompromising gun cult, amount first of all to a bloody war on logic. Does the NRA have a solution for the escalating body count from lunatics with guns? Yes, it does: a solution that even Americans from sparsely armed blue states regard with slack-jawed disbelief. Share it with a foreigner and he'll assume you're raving mad, hallucinating. Negative publicity from America's round-robin of domestic massacres never softens the NRA's stand against gun control. Instead, they recommend arming all potential victims—putting handguns in every student's backpack, concealing them under the Rev. Winters' surplice and under the bathrobes, shawls and lap blankets of octogenarians watching television. A pistol under every secretary's keyboard and under every teacher's desk. They advocate arming patrons in bars and restaurants as well, so no one will be caught without a fighting chance when that gunman kicks in the door.

Solution to hundreds, thousands of murdered victims of crazies going insane with guns? Give everybody guns.

So that more crazies have them. Reallly. Having a particularly bad day? Just grab your gun and go out shooting people, since it's right there. More accessible than ever. And even if others were armed, how long would it take to actually pull it out and shoot the gunman? Long enough that people would still be getting killed.

Or what if you see someone pulling out what might be a gun and shoot? Turns out it just a phone (or something similar). Congratulations, you've just killed an innocent because you had a weapon handy and thought he might have one too.

If you haven't noticed, I'm a fan of stricter gun laws. I'd really like to see legistlation that bans them outside of hunting. Do I honestly believe we're going to see any legistlation in terms of gun rights? Doubtful. At most I'd like to see something restricting the more poweful handguns more, but I think there already is was some legistlation on that front from years ago.

In Congress, the gun lobby maneuvered to eliminate handgun restrictions and an assault-rifle ban in the District of Columbia, one of the most dangerous cities in the USA.

If you could possibly even explain how an assault rifle could have a legitimate use, by all means. Please.

To that end, here's an excellent article on guns and why stricter legislation is needed.

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emcee
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Posted on 04-16-09 12:32:55 AM

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Given the ambiguity of the second amendment it doesn't make sense for government to go to one extreme or the other on gun legislation. There's no need for far reaching, absolute laws, that at are probably going to do little to keep guns out of the hands of those who'll most misuse them.

Sensible gun legislation specifically tries to keep guns from potentially dangerous people. Licenses, waiting periods, background checks, no rational person should be against these. Unfortunately, when it comes to gun control, you aren't always dealing with rational people. There's the NRA, with their bizarre "level the playing field" mentality, like they want to turn the country into something like a cheesy post-apocalyptic movie, where everyone is walking around packing heat. Of course, then what happens when the bad guys get rocket launchers?

To Sakura:

I don't know what bizarro world you're living in where the Constitution is more under attack now than the last 8 years. Even if you think we're heading towards all out Socialism (we're not, by the way), that's hardly a constitutional issue, the concept of Socialism didn't even exist when they were writing the Constitution.

To Shantae:

The leaders of the Democratic Party aren't going to come out and 'denounce' anyone within their party who doesn't fall in line with a particular view point, any more then the Republican Party would. However, individual Democrats running for election or re-election will go out of there way to remind everyone they aren't after their guns. Obama had a whole series of ads devoted to that.

And back on topic: I don't think it really matters who's funding or organizing these "tea parties", as long as those participating are expressing their own opinions. The truth is most of the people on the wingnut fringe of both the right and left do tend to agree a lot with those on the same side, but closer to the center, they just have a bunch of crazy tacked on. Just because these events bring the neo-Nazis and successions out of the woodwork, is no reason to play guilt by association. Those people thrive on attention, it's best to just ignore them.

Hiryuu

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Posted on 04-16-09 12:41:29 AM

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Wow.

emcee...I think you need to stop typing. It makes you look stupid.

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Posted on 04-16-09 12:54:49 AM (last edited by Xkeeper at 04-15-09 09:55 PM)

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Originally posted by Sakura
Wow.

emcee...I think you need to stop typing. It makes you look stupid.

Try to keep the personal attacks down. That goes for everybody.

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emcee
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Posted on 04-16-09 01:05:58 AM

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Originally posted by Sakura
Wow.

emcee...I think you need to stop typing. It makes you look stupid.

You might try pointing out specifically what parts make me "look stupid". Possibly even with counterarguments, if you can manage.

Xkeeper

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Posted on 04-16-09 08:35:36 AM

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Originally posted by emcee
Originally posted by Sakura
Wow.

emcee...I think you need to stop typing. It makes you look stupid.

You might try pointing out specifically what parts make me "look stupid". Possibly even with counterarguments, if you can manage.

I'll be honest, in that I cannot remember the last time either of them (Tanks, Hiryuu) actually defended any of their arguments with proof.

Or really, anything. I mean I keep hearing "WELL UH THEM DAMN LIBURLS" and such, but they never can point out where it was said, whereas I at least try to make sure my facts both exist and are factual.

And, fairly unsurprisingly, when they're cornered, they tend to shut up and not say anything further.

They like to beat up on me since I get most of my news from Daily Kos, but they seem to have missed the little bit where they refrence 99% of the things they post back to the original sources so you can read it for yourself.

As opposed to Fox News which just edits out the segments they don't like. ~

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Posted on 04-16-09 08:56:58 AM

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On the topic of backing up ourselves by using refrences and reliable sources...

Originally posted by Sakura
By the by...there really is no leader in all of these tea parties today...which apparently you guys are under the impression that there is. These would be considered grass-root movements.

So not "leading"... but would you consider a "fair and balanced" network heavily promoting them to be close?

Nonetheless, protesters gathered in cities across America to mark the April 15 tax filing deadline with rallies inspired by the Boston Tea Party and promoted by Fox News, conservative blogs and talk radio.

There are others I could point out where they actually have been out there (promoting their hosts will be at certain rallies, for example). Maybe if you still don't get it.

Also, what's the whole point of these? Being aganist tax hikes?

Obama sought to inoculate himself by building modest tax cuts for most Americans into the stimulus bill, while saying that today's higher spending must give way to frugality and deficit reduction once the economy rebounds.

But he just cut them for most people.

And though Republicans insist that Obama's budget will ultimately put upward pressure on taxes, for now Obama is cutting taxes.

But that fact carried little weight with the demonstrators.

"We're just Americans trying to get our voices heard -- about too much taxation and spending, the swelling size of government, the bailouts for big business," protester Robin Todd said at a rally outside the domed Capitol in Sacramento. "That's European-style socialism."

Yeah, I'm fucking clueless. "Okay, here's a tax cut for 95% of you" (98%?). Cue right-wing raeg about tax increases. Okay.

The quotes in this post came from here. In before OMG THATS LOS ANGELES VALUEZ THO THEYRE LIBURAL MEDIUH

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