Jul -- News: Plano, TX's consideration for middle school grading policy

Roy Koopa
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Posted on 04-10-09 02:41:06 PM

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I'm sorry, discipline and fairness is something we all need to learn. :/

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Posted on 04-11-09 12:17:51 AM

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Fully agreed that the schooling system needs a complete overhaul, but not like this.

More focus on individuals? Yes. Allowing people to cheat/be late without penalty? No.

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emcee
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Posted on 04-11-09 12:25:39 AM

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There should be penalties for being late or cheating, but it shouldn't have anything to do with grades. Grades should only be used to track a students progress learning. Incorporating it as part of a punishment/rewards system is one of the major problems with our school systems.

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Posted on 04-11-09 12:29:01 AM

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Originally posted by emcee
There should be penalties for being late or cheating, but it shouldn't have anything to do with grades. Grades should only be used to track a students progress learning. Incorporating it as part of a punishment/rewards system is one of the major problems with our school systems.

Cheating should definitely have an impact on grading, even if it simply means omission. After all, if you have to cheat, you probably aren't learning, are you?

Perhaps have a "get out of grade penalty free" card for the obligatory fuckup somebody makes, but repeat offenders just get zeroes.

Late assignments I could deal with being treated somewhat less severely, since there could be a lot of factors behind besides just pure laziness.

I was under the impression that the system was removing all penalties, hence the original reply.

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emcee
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Posted on 04-11-09 12:48:09 AM

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Originally posted by Xkeeper
Cheating should definitely have an impact on grading, even if it simply means omission. After all, if you have to cheat, you probably aren't learning, are you?

Perhaps have a "get out of grade penalty free" card for the obligatory fuckup somebody makes, but repeat offenders just get zeroes.

Late assignments I could deal with being treated somewhat less severely, since there could be a lot of factors behind besides just pure laziness.

I was under the impression that the system was removing all penalties, hence the original reply.

The gist I got was that they wouldn't punish a student for cheating or late assignments by lowering their grade. Not that they wouldn't punish them at all:

Originally posted by The Article
Instead, teachers and school officials would set a different consequence so that student behavior doesn't pull down grades

Punishing a student by lowering their grade makes no sense, and completely defeats the purpose of having a grading system in the first place.

The first priority of a school should to educate the students. Sure, they can teach responsibility and organization as well, but it shouldn't interfere with that first priority. The fact that schools don't realize this is why they keep graduating a steady stream of morons.

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Posted on 04-11-09 01:09:46 AM

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Originally posted by emcee
...Punishing a student by lowering their grade makes no sense, and completely defeats the purpose of having a grading system in the first place...

How do you figure? It instills discipline. How the hell else are you supposed to tell a person to get a job done by a specific deadline or come up with original content in a particular case if it came down to that in a job? Your PAY grade would get docked with continuous failures like that and so would your job.

Think in that prospect...it's PERFECTLY sensible.

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Posted on 04-11-09 01:11:40 AM

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Back to ruler slaps anyone?

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Posted on 04-11-09 01:11:59 AM

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Originally posted by emcee
The first priority of a school should to educate the students. Sure, they can teach responsibility and organization as well, but it shouldn't interfere with that first priority. The fact that schools don't realize this is why they keep graduating a steady stream of morons.

If you cheat on every test, there is no indication you are learning.

If you aren't learning anything, your grade should be lower than its maximum to reflect this.

Therefore, cheating should lower your grade.

It's that simple.

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emcee
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Posted on 04-11-09 01:21:32 AM (last edited by emcee at 04-10-09 10:24 PM)

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Originally posted by Sakura
Originally posted by emcee
...Punishing a student by lowering their grade makes no sense, and completely defeats the purpose of having a grading system in the first place...

How do you figure? It instills discipline. How the hell else are you supposed to tell a person to get a job done by a specific deadline or come up with original content in a particular case if it came down to that in a job? Your PAY grade would get docked with continuous failures like that and so would your job.

Think in that prospect...it's PERFECTLY sensible.

School isn't a job and grades aren't (or shouldn't be) a "wage". Why not lower the student grade for fighting, or insubordination, or wearing hat? That might also "instill discipline", and would make just as much sense.

Grades should be used to determine how much a student is learning, and where they need more attention. Anything that effects a students grade that doesn't reflect that is counterproductive.

Originally posted by Xkeeper
If you cheat on every test, there is no indication you are learning.

If you aren't learning anything, your grade should be lower than its maximum to reflect this.

Therefore, cheating should lower your grade.

It's that simple.

Cheating just means the student copied something from another student. It doesn't mean they have no concept of the material being taught. They should simply make the student retake the test, and punish them some other way.

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Posted on 04-11-09 01:25:10 AM (last edited by Xkeeper at 04-10-09 10:26 PM)

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Originally posted by emcee
School isn't a job and grades aren't (or shouldn't be) a "wage". Why not lower the student grade for fighting, or insubordination, or wearing hat? That might also "instill discipline", and would make just as much sense.

That's what suspensions are for.

Nice strawman, though.

Grades should be used to determine how much a student is learning, and where they need more attention. Anything that effects a students grade that doesn't reflect that is counterproductive.

So getting free answers for everything without doing any actual work should, as far as you're concerned, be considered learning.

Wow. Just... wow.

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Posted on 04-11-09 01:29:42 AM

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On that note, I'm not a fan of out of school suspension. You're basically rewarding them. What kid doesn't want extra time out of school? Really the only thing hurting them is having to make up the work missed all at once.

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Posted on 04-11-09 01:29:42 AM

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Dallas ISD implemented a policy this year that garnered national attention because it eliminated homework deadlines, minimized homework grades and wouldn't allow grades to fall lower than 50. The district hoped to stem staggering student dropout rates.

Man, I wish my bank would make it so that my account balance wouldn't fall below $500. I'd be rich!

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emcee
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Posted on 04-11-09 02:01:48 AM

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Originally posted by Xkeeper
That's what suspensions are for.

Exactly. Suspensions are for punishment. Grades are measuring progress. Using grades for punishment, regardless of what the punishment is for, is stupid.

Originally posted by Xkeeper
So getting free answers for everything without doing any actual work should, as far as you're concerned, be considered learning.

Wow. Just... wow.

What are you talking about? I didn't say anything even remotely like that. I didn't say cheating should result in an automatic A, anymore than it should result in an automatic F. I said they should be made to retake the test and be punished some other way.

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Posted on 04-11-09 04:54:48 AM

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	Metal_Man88
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Yeah, you know they have policies like those around here.

It just teaches people how to cheat.

Cheating won't get the project done for work.

However I don't mind. to those who advocate not punishing people for cheating: just remember, we're all going to be paying for those people who learn to get through school cheating, realize they can't get a job by faked knowledge/cheating, and then wind up supporting them when they go on welfare.

Feeling like rewarding cheating now, eh?

Ah aha aha ahahahahahahahahaaaaa!

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emcee
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Posted on 04-11-09 05:05:37 AM

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Nobody is advocating not punishing people for cheating.

Xenesis

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Posted on 04-11-09 05:17:03 AM

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The problem with suspensions is that they're a punishment unrelated to the crime with no clear cause and effect beyond "The Principal/teacher said so". As opposed to "I cheated on this test, I had my grade revoked for that test."

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Posted on 04-11-09 05:19:36 AM

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Originally posted by Xkeeper
Man, I wish my bank would make it so that my account balance wouldn't fall below $500. I'd be rich!

50 is still failing. It'd be like having a bank account balance that couldn't fall below 5 cents, where the minimal withdrawal was 6 cents.

Would you be broke? No. Would it be at all useful? Not at all!

Same with the 50 (not even an F+; on a 10-point scale that'd be ~58); makes them feel better, does not dilute the actual grading system, at least as long as GPA is based on actual letter grades.

'Course, if the teachers are incompetent, everything I said is inapplicable. So, optimism!

Xenesis

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Posted on 04-11-09 05:22:51 AM

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Oh right, I forgot about America's horribly inflated grade system where the pass grades range from 75-100 instead of doing 50-100 like most normal people.

;

emcee
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Posted on 04-11-09 07:54:47 AM

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Originally posted by Xenesis
The problem with suspensions is that they're a punishment unrelated to the crime with no clear cause and effect beyond "The Principal/teacher said so". As opposed to "I cheated on this test, I had my grade revoked for that test."

I don't think suspensions are ever really related to the crime. It should be enough that they're told that that is why they are being suspended.

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