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Jul - Gaming - Pokemon Black and White New poll - New thread - New reply
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Lunaria

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Posted on 06-15-10 12:45:50 PM Link | Quote
Am I the only one who gets a strong urge to throw up when I see the new pokemon sprites? (and by that I do not mean new species)

I'm well aware that all the sprites have in-game animation, but that's not a good enough excuse for the horrible looking sprites. I had the same urge when I played pearl for the first time at the big freaking downgrade from the in-game sprites from ruby. And I don't want to get the standard bullshit that there are so many monsters to draw or some shit excuse like that, there are other DS games that could deal with that just fine so I don't see why pokemon should be any exception. (Even with animation)

Some even argue that it's a style to have it simple, but let me break it to you, simple != lack of shading. Simple, is rather a design choice for the (in this case) monsters themselves, and mind you, most of them are simple designed.

I honestly see no excuse for the low quality presented here, and it makes me sad that no critique or reviewer have even talked about this simply due to it being such a well known and revered franchise!


No seriously, I'm not joking, just look at it:


/rant

In other news, I wonder what this whole deal with uploading save file is about. I "hope" it have something to do with being able to play and interact with other people in-game and be able to challenge them in real time from withing the game world. (That would be awesome)

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Danika
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Posted on 06-15-10 12:49:32 PM Link | Quote
Peardian: At least finally, we won't have to deal with "The sunlight is harsh!" or "It is raining!" or "There is a sandstorm!" every turn... hopefully... =P

That was always annoying in RSE and DPP...

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Dan Hibiki
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"I dislike the art of fighting, but I want to be the king of fighters!"
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Posted on 06-15-10 04:29:11 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lunaria
Massive butthurt
Yeah. I read your thing on "all of them will be animated, and that's no excuse". That is retarded. Almost 600 creatures, all with constant, unique animations that change based on location or battle mechanics. You're whining for no reason and starting to sound like a vanilla WoW neckbeard, constantly complaining about how the original was always the best, and it was never the same after that, etc., etc.
I respect opinions, but you, young man, need to calm down.


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Lunaria

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Posted on 06-15-10 04:34:19 PM Link | Quote
Excuse me, but I actually said it perfectly clear in my post that such an excuse is pure bullshit. A much less funded team could handle making much bigger battle sprites animated and such for a game on the DS.

The battle sprites from last gens pokemon games looked good, there is no excuse for the low quality, no excuse at all.

Now, mind you, I will buy the game, I will play it, and I might enjoy it depending on the gameplay. But there is no reason at all to ignore the big flaws of a game and needlessly shove them under the carpet, something needs to be done about it.

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Xkeeper

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Posted on 06-15-10 04:40:18 PM Link | Quote
solution: use three dees!

seriously why aren't they doing this yet

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Lunaria

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Posted on 06-15-10 04:41:58 PM Link | Quote
xk has a good point. I'm surprised that they did not pull over to full 3D yet considering they have done so with many of their other series.

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Posted on 06-15-10 04:42:15 PM Link | Quote
Maybe it could use a bit more shading but I seriously don't have a problem with the sprites.

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Peardian

  
Magikoopa

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Posted on 06-15-10 04:42:55 PM Link | Quote
So? What's wrong with a new style? It doesn't have to have three levels of shading in every color for every Pokemon. Some Pokemon are so colorful that they can't fit that many colors in the palette.

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Dan Hibiki
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Posted on 06-15-10 04:44:11 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Peardian
So? What's wrong with a new style? It doesn't have to have three levels of shading in every color for every Pokemon. Some Pokemon are so colorful that they can't fit that many colors in the palette.
Also, limitations of hardware, etc, etc...

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Tina
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Posted on 06-15-10 04:44:54 PM Link | Quote
Palettes and color restrictions aren't really a problem on the DS unless you don't know how to use the 3D hardware to (literally) even a beginner's stage.

But again, this would all be solved if they moved to 3D! They could even make real animations, instead of hurf durf three frames.

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Dan Hibiki
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Posted on 06-15-10 04:46:28 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tina
Palettes and color restrictions aren't really a problem on the DS unless you don't know how to use the 3D hardware to (literally) even a beginner's stage.

But again, this would all be solved if they moved to 3D! They could even make real animations, instead of hurf durf three frames.
If you can find a way to put 600 3D creatures with unique animations into a DS cart, by all means, I'd love to hear it.
I'd say, "Wait for the 3DS", but no one wants to wait that long for the next Pokemon game (god forbid).

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Peardian

  
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Posted on 06-15-10 04:46:54 PM (last edited by Peardian at 06-15-10 01:47 PM) Link | Quote
Edit: I'm too slow.

Yes, exactly, which ties into the palette. I've tried spriting D/P Pokemon in RSE style for a friend, and sometimes you can't have more than just one shade of a color because of all the rest of the shades you need. The fact that they're limiting the style so that less colorful Pokemon don't seem overshaded is probably for the best.


As for not using 3D, it could be a tradition thing. They want it to be sprite based because that's part of their style.

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Keitaro

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Posted on 06-15-10 04:52:09 PM (last edited by Keitaro at 06-15-10 01:54 PM) Link | Quote
um no because the Pokemon are always designed with pallet limitations in mind.

I am glad someone finally agrees that the battle graphic style is complete bullshit, I've hated it in Gen 4(especially since SOME OF THE GRAPHICS USED THE GEN 3 SHADING STYLE) and now its just bad looking, ONLY complaint I have.

well, that and...

Originally posted by that article
Pokemon that have been discovered in Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh are hardly seen


-_________________________________________-

really? didn't we learn our lesson with Ruby and Sapphire? Are they really just against creatively using existing Pokemon? Christ. I AM NOT AGAINST HAVING NEW POKEMON AND I ACTUALLY LIKE A LOT OF THESE DESIGNS however what I am against is having new ones just for the hell of it and completely retconing the other 400 SOMETHING POKEMON. So, what, is Sinnoh just going to be another Hoenn where we'll pretty much never see those Pokemon ever again now outside of the "popular" ones? God damn they really need to learn how to BALANCE things.
DigitalBasic
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Posted on 06-15-10 04:56:37 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lunaria
Some even argue that it's a style to have it simple, but let me break it to you, simple != lack of shading. Simple, is rather a design choice for the (in this case) monsters themselves, and mind you, most of them are simple designed.

...what?

Pokemon's style presents itself with having a more cartoony look, and having so much shading removes such an effect. If you are going to complain about the Pokemon being shaded as such, you better start complaining about the entire game which also relies on the same style of shading and presentation.

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Keitaro

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Posted on 06-15-10 05:12:58 PM (last edited by Keitaro at 06-15-10 02:16 PM) Link | Quote
I actually always have complained about the entire graphic style of 4th generation onwards, but its honestly done very well EXCEPT FOR IN BATTLE. The back pictures are the worst offenders of this, just look at Feraligatr and Charmeleon for examples.

FireRed/LeafGreen had a good balance in terms of graphic style. They tried to expand upon that with the tilesets in gen 4 and did a pretty decent job but just plain dropped the ball with the battle graphics. As far as I'm concerned over-all FRLG had a really nice style going on that while wasn't perfect had a lot of potential to be expanded upon. I mean, look at the actual artwork style of the Pokemon. OBVIOUSLY the sprites are based on that. Yet the artwork isn't just BLACK OUTLINE + FILL TOOL. Gen 3's graphics, while Ruby and Sapphire's were arguably SOME of the worst in the series, still were able to at least attempt to match the style of the artwork pretty well. Case in point, Squirtle, Caterpie, and Pidgey from FRLG.

It just feels really, really off, especially with the back pictures which are much larger and therefor even more noticeable when it comes to the lack of shading and detail. Which is a shame because they could make them SO cool. It shouldn't be an issue of having to animate everything when you have a TEAM of graphic artists, so I doubt that's the case. Its a stylistic thing and it just...doesn't feel right. Almost beta-like. But it doesn't take away from the game play which is something Gamefreak at least so far has always gotten right at least for my tastes.
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Posted on 06-15-10 05:20:07 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by that article
Pokemon that have been discovered in Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh are hardly seen

Impossible.

There will always be zubat and geodude.
ALWAYS.


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Keitaro

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Posted on 06-15-10 05:26:51 PM (last edited by Keitaro at 06-15-10 02:56 PM) Link | Quote
Geodude, Zubat, Tentacool, Wingul, Goldeen, Psyduck, Pikachu, Machop and Maril are mandatory. Heracross and Girafarig seem to be part of that group as well.
ReiNi
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Posted on 06-16-10 04:18:31 PM Link | Quote
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
The art style looks in my oppinion much better than in Gen. 4. Sure, it uses a simple shading, but that works better with such animations than if they used one similar to gba.
What IS lazyness are the shadows, though I assume they aren't going to stay like that.
(And that of almost 700 different fluid sets of unique animations with different poses being bullshit is stupid. Show me a game that does that.)
And I don't see how no old pokemon isn't a good thing. I want a new game with new things. If I wanted old pokemon, I'd rather play a hack. That's also why I preffer Hoenn over the rest, it was more unique.
Besides, R/S problem was being uncompatible with the old games. However here you will, probably sooner than later (becouse of the event), trade things from all games since.
Now, I'll say that I hate the normal type thing, and no wonder it's sprite suffers that much from the style to make it bland, but look at the starters or legendaries for instance.

Also, neither Zoroark nor Zorua can be encountered through normal gameplay.

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Keitaro

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Posted on 06-16-10 04:45:15 PM Link | Quote
The legendaries looked SO COOL in their artwork but rather bland in the sprite department...and no, I love the idea of new Pokemon and even love these designs, but come on. Hoenn tried it once and look what they did--Pokemon like Flygon got replaced with Garchomp (who is also now probably going to be replace--see what I'm getting at?) there are tons of perfectly good Pokemon who are now basically tacked on as end of game bonuses just for the hell of it at this point. BALANCE IT. Have a healthy combination of old AND new Pokemon. Use old ones in creative ways and I guarantee you that you won't be complaining about there not being enough new things. There is SO MUCH potential in so many Pokemon and yet at this point many of them won't and don't even matter any more. And that's kind of what upsets me, really.
Lunaria

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Posted on 06-16-10 09:21:36 PM (last edited by Lunaria at 06-16-10 06:21 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Reimu
And that of almost 700 different fluid sets of unique animations with different poses being bullshit is stupid. Show me a game that does that.

IIRC, 600. is the new count up to? Anyway, it does not matter.
Here is the game and here is a sprite example.

Now, if you want to get in detail and argue about it (I really don't, hench why I stopped posting.) yes there are not quite as many monsters and yes the sprites are not as dynamic animated. They do however have more detail and most of them are quite bigger in size, so I think it would even it out. But whatever, it's your opinion and I don't want to argue about it.

I must say I agree with you on the point that they shading style from R/S/E/FR/LG might not work animated in the way they do it, I think it would look odd. But I still think they should improve the shading from what they have now to something better. :/

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