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11-21-17 12:46:04 PM

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Cuber456

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Posted on 07-04-17 12:03:25 AM Link | Quote
The older I get, the less I want to be confined in a classroom setting. Got beat to hell in college; I did my time. I don't want to be confined anymore. I'd rather just self study if I was going to learn a new subject. It can be pretty easy to learn on your own if you do a little research and have the motivation. That motivation piece can make or break you. Lately I've been toying around with coding in C. I've created a few simple projects such as a Monty Hall Problem simulator and a simple Linked List. Feeling more comfortable with the language even though there is still a lot that I don't know.

Took German when I was in high school because it looked like a cool language. Never had a real use for it though which is why my knowledge of it has been withering away since. I've felt kind of bad about it but it just wasn't something I ever really had exposure to outside of the classroom. If I were to learn a new language of choice, it would totally be Japanese.
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Posted on 07-04-17 01:35:35 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Cuber456
I'd rather just self study if I was going to learn a new subject. It can be pretty easy to learn on your own if you do a little research and have the motivation. That motivation piece can make or break you.

Took German when I was in high school because it looked like a cool language. Never had a real use for it though which is why my knowledge of it has been withering away since.


I agree...
If I had the choice, I would bypass 100% that whole system...
Some individuals I talk to seem to think there really is value in college and school, in general.
(and by extension you're a complete moron if you haven't subjected it to yourself on a given topic)
I've heard the stories, programming courses generally are just awful, or you even do not use them because corporate "suits" like quick money, not stable code.
I took web design my sophomore year in high school, besides my motivation was broken because of my regular classes (it also spilled-over into engineering I, and art)
I've been told I can challenge classes in some cases, I intend to try, whenever I'm forced into that stuff, which will likely be this year T-T

Back on self-teaching:
When you self-teach, you're not pressured by some impending deadlines, or grades, or overwhelming PILES of debt... You can focus on what you want, when you want, and however you want. You also don't get told how to deal with "standard cases" , you figure-out all that shit, for the most part, on your own. School, at the end of the day, is comprised overwhelmingly of book smarts. I've learned firsthand that they really don't always suit the task at hand. Programming is especially true of it, especially at the ever-increasing rate technology "evolves".

Motivation is an issue, alright. I'm not sure I'll ever fully recover it. Mine is so completely shattered. I took a break after high school (thx to constant reminding me of stress things... extended now twice) to try and recover, to complete some personal projects, and to just generally heal from all the damage high school inflicted on me. So far, that's worked wonders... //sarcasm

So we're clear, I'm not saying education is useless, but people should be allowed to learn in what ways they want, and learn the fastest. School, in general, fails at this. Private schools being a bit of an exception, because they do not have to deal with the public school boards that honestly, just don't know what they're doing/saying... But, I don't support privatized education. Knowledge is supposed to be free*, or so that's what I was led to believe.

Cool. Only language class I took was Speech, cuz it's mandatory. (and the self-repeating joke called 'English'. But ofc, our language in and of itself... is kinda... weird and very hard to nail-down, hence repeating the same crap every year in the classes that teach it) If I were going to learn another language, I'd prefer to do it 100% on my own time, and of my own free will. Mandating it is a sure-fire way to make me NOT want to. IDK what language I'd choose. I'm not entirely sure I would pick it up that well. I'd do either Japanese or German, probably. Japanese more to fit in with some of my friends, German because I am actually part German. To be fully honest, I'd like to learn an ancient form of writing, like the Egyptian Hieroglyphs!

*Alright, wikipedia...
A while ago, I did some google searches for articles on how reliable it may or may not be. The general consensus is that the facts are largely misrepresented, and Wikipedia is discredited for something that not only happened quite some time ago, but since has been mitigated by their moderation staff. One of the articles I read suggested there may be another reason: text books. In this day and age, should they not be irrelevant? They're factually obsolete by the end of each year, and at the most extreme: each day. If there's a typo, the whole book has to be re-printed. Digital mediums aren't subjected to either, because they can be updated at the blink of the eye. Now, while Wikipedia still kinda requires you to know your shit, it's not this unreliable tabgled web of lies everyone (especially in schools) seems to believe. But, it's 100% free (excluding needing donations to sustain itself) , and more or less, public domain. Something the text books are not, and thus a threat to their very existence. Perhaps the real reason Wikipedia has this reputation is because text book companies still "need" to make their money, to basically extort the schools for knowledge that's supposed to be free... I read more than a few comments by industry professionals who support using wikipedia, and one of my contacts who also is an industry professional agrees it's not completely worthless. Anyways, does the conspiracy theory seem credible to you? I'm going to go with "yes" , since Wikipedia definitely has an enemy whom benefits greatly from it being considered "unreliable".

Well, that was longer than planned... sry...
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Posted on 07-04-17 10:32:36 AM Link | Quote
I feel like I need to improve my English speaking skills. I think I can write and read well enough and that I can also understand what other people are talking, but my accent is the most broken thing ever and I also have a slight difficulty of thinking about what words I'm going to say on the spot.
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Posted on 07-04-17 01:52:07 PM Link | Quote
I on occasion get held-up while speaking cuz my mouth gets ahead of my brain and it takes a few good seconds of stuttering to pick back up... /:

I also cracked under pressure during speech class one time... hated that
RanAS
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Posted on 07-04-17 01:59:06 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by brian151
I on occasion get held-up while speaking cuz my mouth gets ahead of my brain and it takes a few good seconds of stuttering to pick back up... /:

Happens to me as well, sometimes in weird ways though even in my main language, such as when I mixed the words vogal (vowel) and consoante (consonant) and got vogante and consoal. Usually it's because I'm still joining words together even though I'm also speaking so both end up merging as a result.
Cuber456

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Posted on 07-04-17 04:55:36 PM Link | Quote
@brian151
A lot of people only see classroom settings as the place to learn materials. It ultimately depends on the subject at hand and your motivation. At the end of the day, self study alone won't get you a degree in a subject. You still have to be tethered to classes but for certain subjects, self study can be much easier and cheaper. People seem to doubt themselves. It isn't that hard to Google up subjects and start learning right away. There is also something to be said for researching up some books that you can look at or pick up from a library. Beats a classroom where professors can force you to get the latest edition of book X. Shit is expensive and sucks.

Public speaking sucks.

@RanAS
Has you (or anyone else) ever tried apps like Tandum or HelloTalk? They are basically apps that allow you to engage in conversation with someone who speaks language X. I haven't personally tried them myself. Found out about them after thinking it would be cool to have pen pals with someone from another country with the goal of improving conversation skills (at least written). If I decided to learn Japanese, I'd probably give these apps a waggle. I guess the other thing one could do is just go to websites in said desired language but these apps are geared for conversarion. It would be cool to find more apps & websites that are similar.
brian151
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Posted on 07-04-17 05:52:53 PM Link | Quote
@RanAS
Yeah, I'm not sure why it happens to me, but it does...

@Cuber456
When that's what you're lead to believe. But even some experts have admitted that setting might not be so optimal, and the school/work environment is so artificial/unnatural that it's actually hindering people.

Degrees are... IDK... Plenty of people question their value. They're nothing more than a certificate of authenticity, but even less reliable. A case in point my dad brought-up is doctors. God help you if your doctor is the guy that graduated at the bottom of his class. Also, seeing the stuff some 'experts' say these days, I wonder if they really know anything... or even, if they've been paid-off to lie.

Yes, it does... I very near failed that class, too... the grade weights are BS! (or at least, they were at my school)
RanAS
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Posted on 07-05-17 04:38:43 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Cuber456
Has you (or anyone else) ever tried apps like Tandum or HelloTalk? They are basically apps that allow you to engage in conversation with someone who speaks language X. I haven't personally tried them myself. Found out about them after thinking it would be cool to have pen pals with someone from another country with the goal of improving conversation skills (at least written). If I decided to learn Japanese, I'd probably give these apps a waggle. I guess the other thing one could do is just go to websites in said desired language but these apps are geared for conversarion. It would be cool to find more apps & websites that are similar.

I haven't tried it, might consider it since I do agree it sounds cool, but I'm usually very nervous talking to someone I don't really know.
Cuber456

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Posted on 07-05-17 08:08:50 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by RanAS
but I'm usually very nervous talking to someone I don't really know.

That's a fair point. You really don't know who you are talking to. That's part of the reason I've held back. Well that and because I don't know a foreign language well enough to throw myself into the fray! Being pen pals with someone from another country does sound wicked cool though.

@brian151
Ideally, public speaking is about knowing the material you are going to present and practicing like crazy so that you've nailed down what you are going to say.

You want to know your material because, if you are presenting in front of people, you are the assumed expert! This part is really more critical for when you get the person who likes to ask questions on your presentation (during or after) that divert away from your original script. This can be a little tricky because you might get an oddball question you have to field.

You want to have some sort of script practiced and memorized so that you can hit the ground running and keep a pace. It sucks when you are presenting something and you are fumbling around for what to say (I've been there and it blows). Also sucks for the audience because they have to watch you break a sweat.

I hate public speaking just because it does require thorough prep to get right and I also hate being the center of attention.
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Posted on 07-06-17 12:40:35 AM Link | Quote
What's funny, is even my own mother agrees that the "memorize everything" part is a complete joke and waste of time. (my mom and i often argue because very rarely do we see completely eye to eye) Most people today use teleprompters and cue cards. I would certainly use the latter. The expectation for experts to have completely memorized their shit is a bit unrealistic... put them under pressure, it's even more so. Oddball questions can appear anywhere. Honestly, I can struggle with normal questions, even. One of my speeches I honestly couldn't fully answer one of them "what kinds of games would you make, if you could make anything?" To this date, I can't answer it. All I am certain of is I want to make something special. Now, as for cracking under pressure... I tried explaining programming, and I used batch as an example 'cuz it's VERY easy to use as one. I tripped-up on the arithmetic operations... yeah, real smooth..... I absolutely HATE being the center of attention. I don't like to be completely ignored, either, but I HATE having massive amounts of attention drawn towards me. Also, let's apply "memorize it!" in a more drastic scenario: chemistry. If I were to become a chemist (I have no desire to, I fear I'll blow something up or poison someone) , I'm not relying on my memory, I'm relying on notes or books with the formulas and whatnot, as much as possible. People are not computers, cramming stuff into memory is extremely error-prone, and it can fail altogether in stressful situations. When programming, you should see how often I open-up online documentation or look for an answer on StackOverflow. I go by my memory as best I can, but expecting me to 100% know everything (and remember, even after doing it) is just absurd. In the regards of mandating everyone to remember some speech, I have NO respect for public speaking. Especially when the high-profile speakers have cue card and teleprompters, anyways. Some of them don't even WRITE their speeches. Sorry if this is kinda rambling, but it'll be a cold day in Hell when I take the "thou shalt memorize speeches forward, backwards, inside out, sideways, any-ways" thing seriously... One half because it's a double-standard, and the other because it's a highly unrealistic expectation in the first place, one that very few people, realistically, will ever be capable of.
Robbie Rage

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Posted on 07-07-17 08:33:06 PM Link | Quote
I used to hate public speaking for all the reasons people mentioned already. However, my mind began to change after taking my first public speaking course in college.

Instead of memorizing a full speech, I learned to put down some bullet points on notecards or a powerpoint instead, and fill in the rest freeform. In this way, all of my focus goes to imparting knowledge and sounding the best I possibly can, instead of putting so much pressure on myself to repeat back a bunch of words in a specific order.

Also, while memorization may not be the most practical way to prepare for a speech, I find that rehearsing what I might say off of bullet points is be much more helpful. Not only do I feel myself getting more and more comfortable with what I might say and soak in what I already know, but it also helps me get comfortable with any time limits I may have (in case, say, I only have 5 or 10 minutes to speak). More often than not, I usually have far less time than I think, making it even easier on me.

TL;DR: Practice and Rehearsal is better than memorization. Notecards always.
brian151
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Posted on 07-07-17 11:45:01 PM Link | Quote
hardly merits a tl;dr
and tbh, that excuse annoys me...

what you're saying makes sense. still won't change my opinions on taking such courses, and especially on the being mandated. Some people aren't cut-out for public speaking, and that's the plain and simple truth. The sooner schools cut this "jack of all trades" and "one size fits all" bull crap, the better everything will be.
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Posted on 07-10-17 10:55:45 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by brian151
hardly merits a tl;dr
and tbh, that excuse annoys me...


Which excuse do you mean?

Originally posted by brian151
what you're saying makes sense. still won't change my opinions on taking such courses, and especially on the being mandated.


I'm not looking to change opinions or preferences, just sharing what worked for me in the past.

Originally posted by brian151
Some people aren't cut-out for public speaking, and that's the plain and simple truth.


Do you believe this about yourself? If so, how did you find out?

To be clear, some people will always have a natural talent for public speaking (or any skill, really) over others. However, that doesn't mean that people can't improve, or at least learn the basics to get by if they have to.

Worst case scenario, people can learn their limits and skills and move on elsewhere, but you're never going to know until you give it a shot.

Originally posted by brian151
The sooner schools cut this "jack of all trades" and "one size fits all" bull crap, the better everything will be.


I haven't followed this thread since the beginning, but I have to wonder which "schools" you're talking about. I've noticed this complaint more about the Junior High / High School and 1st year college levels. This doesn't last forever, and the further up in higher education you get, the more majors and specialized training kicks in. Which level are you referring to here?
brian151
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Posted on 07-10-17 06:38:30 PM Link | Quote
excuse:
"too long, didn't read"
I've personally been told this a million bloody times...
And when i go to shorten it?
"explain more"

opinions:
fair enough
i'm too used to confrontations over such things...

some can't some can:
me?
honestly, yes... because i too easily crack under pressure. same as i can lose motivation if there's next to none and i'm literally just regurgitating stuff. both of these hit me very bad through school.

natural talent?
i agree with that much. forcing those who simply aren't comfortable with it i do not condone, and liability falls entirely on the person forcing them into it, if/when they should screw-up.

try things?
i gave it a shot, cuz i was forced, but still... i barely survived...

jack-of-all trades, 'standards':
ugh, this is going to need a text wall... i don't wanna
i will say this much:
"jack of all trades, and a master of none"
standardized education (most especially how it's being approached) just can't work because people learn differently. In addition to this, gimmicky education is far more effective (same in work environments) because the human race learns/produces more in playful and fun environments than these, well, basically, prisons. One problem that now to think of it, that I've observed, since people learn at different paces, is the "standardized tests"... For slower people, achieving even the 'average' score is difficult/impossible. For the faster and smarter people, the test is a complete waste of time and not challenging them. And then the college entrance exams... I'm with the people that say it's probably not necessary. Was already "allowed" (forced, more like) to do the SAT for free, and it was nothing but utter hell and caused extreme anxiety the whole time. Also, it's controlled by an organization that's basically like Big Brother. (In fact, i'd say that organization is absolutely, by all definitions, a police state.) I'm kinda rambling, and not being clear here, sorry, this is just a touchy subject for me, and it takes me far too much brainpower to formulate any type of argument about the subject. I may skip replying to this entirely, sorry. I just... it's complicated.
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Posted on 07-12-17 12:43:36 AM Link | Quote
It's really weird to see 11 users online here
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Posted on 07-12-17 04:58:43 PM Link | Quote
I have Ride On Time (the Japanese funk song) stuck in my head and while I like it the bits with the backup singers going "ooooohhh" sticking in my head kind of drive me up the wall.

I'd still recommend Tatsuro Yamashita (and Toshiki Kadomatsu) because they have some good discographies and their music is great "night out on the town" stuff.
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Posted on 07-18-17 01:35:16 PM Link | Quote
I come home from Finland and Jul seems to have had this multiple-day spree? Well, I had actually thought it was about time if you check the trend line!
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Posted on 07-18-17 04:13:44 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Sanqui
I come home from Finland and Jul seems to have had this multiple-day spree? Well, I had actually thought it was about time if you check the trend line!


We're having a resurgence!
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Posted on 07-19-17 05:41:22 PM Link | Quote
Yes, you can definitely feel the increased activity. It's great! It's like an impromptu spree, let's hope it leads to a sustained activity increase!
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Posted on 07-19-17 06:23:12 PM Link | Quote
A lot of it just involves people taking initiative. If nobody posts, nobody has anything to reply to. If you take initiative and make topics to discuss, people can reply, and then...
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