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Jul - General Chat - forums v. discord v. social media New poll - New thread - New reply
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Rambly

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Posted on 10-18-20 01:41:10 AM Link | Quote
which do you prefer?

...or, to ask a probably more fitting set of questions: in what situations do you prefer using one over the other? what do you think are the advantages or disadvantages of each of them? i'm using "discord" here as a catch-all for any other chat program you might like, but that's what i've been using the most lately. social media can be whatever, twitter, reddit, facebook, uhhhhh others if they still exist,

i tend to like using discord -- there's something that feels... intimate about discord, like you're actually talking to the people involved. with forums and social media it feels like there's one thing or another getting between you and the other person -- i guess like, time in the case of forums, and, like, anonymization in the case of social media, but with discord that's not the case.

i think they all have their own distinct feelings, though. discord can feel pretty overstimulating, and forums kind of give you a break from the constant noise. i guess i'd say discord kinda has the same energy as being in a room full of people, a relatively closed space, all talking to them or hanging out with them. forums kind of feel like... public spaces? they feel larger. kind of like to a nice downtown area or a public park. everything kind of remains kind of static unless someone changes it, and they feel really cozy and familiar as a result, i think. but they can still feel lively in their own way because you still get the evidence of things changing and growing slowly.

Roxie from here came up with the idea that social media is like Times Square, and i think i agree. actually, the analogy of an extremely busy commercial district gets more apt the more you think about it: the way social media paradoxically anonymizes everyone but also makes them far too public, the way it tends to aggravate peoples' worst impulses and frustration and on-edginess... there's just something about social media that makes people act like assholes. (social media is also deeply, deeply commercialized and full of advertising.) but it's also fascinating to look at, and you get to just... see a lot on it.

there's another advantage to social media, too, which is that i think when you feel like distancing yourself from people it's a good way to keep tabs on everyone and maintain a little thread of connection. you know?

so yeah. hows bout you guys feel about this kind of a thing. i dont know how to end this post because i make threads so infrequently i dontk onw how to end them BYE

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Girlydragon
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Posted on 10-18-20 02:20:12 PM Link | Quote
I think there is worth to be found in all of them assuming you know what you want and how to get it.

Social media (especially the timeline kind) can easily become a "feel bad button", especially with the way it usually pushes you toward interacting as much as possible. It also doesn't help that a lot of the time the stuff that can be part of the reason social media is toxic is news formulated in the way that it almost feels like "this piece of news is for YOU and you need to interact with it NOW".

Personally I think one of the best ways to get a better experience out of timelines is to cut away the notion that you absolutely need to follow your friends or anyone else and heavily curate it to become a good experience, because the algorithm will not do that for you.

In my case most of twitter/tumblr (the two timeline sites I use) is cute content and memes, and that is refreshing, it is to me very worthwhile to now that I can open up tumblr and be subjected to content that makes me feel better.



On the other hand, forums (and I in some ways count parts reddit to this) is far better for nuanced discussion and slower connections. I don't expect a forum post to get an instant reply, it might not get one at all, but I know that making a post will not impose itself on people without them specifically seeking out to see it. This also makes more proper for heavier stuff when applicable, because if someone does enter a thread about a heavy topic, you can assume that they are in the right mindset to interact with that topic at that moment.

Discord feels pretty much similar to forums in that regard albeit at a faster pace, but it is refreshing to know that even if there is a new message in for example a channel dedicated to the news, which with this year, would probably be bad news, I don't need to interact with it. Even if a personal friend does post something that is important, there's no expectation that you need to interact with it unless they actually send a private message about it, unlike timeline systems where a friend posting something important somehow feels like it was shown to you "specifically".



If Discord was working like social media, it would when you start it up in the morning go "HEY, SOMEONE POSTED A MESSAGE IN #support-channel AND IT SEEMINGLY GOT A LOT OF RESPONSES, WANNA CHECK IT OUT?" and that would be an absolute disaster.




TL;DR: Forums and Discord make it so you can consume content at your own volition, instead of forcing you to consume it at the behest of the algorithm, and this makes it easier to use those without having to greatly curate your follows/friends/interactions.

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Rena
I had one (1) message in Discord deleted and proceeded to make a huge, huge mess about how it was a violation of free speech and how moderators are supposed to be spam janitors and nobody should have the right to tell me not to talk about school shootings
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Posted on 10-18-20 02:41:20 PM Link | Quote
Discord would be great if it weren't run by Gamers™ who only care about the bottom line. Pretty much IRC but with some more nice features like images, formatting, history...

Social media is in general a dumpster fire. I use Twitter pretty much only to share art and still I end up falling down political rabbit holes frequently. It also has the same problem of being run by capitalists, so they're constantly breaking the API to try to force you onto their official shitty app. (But hey, at least they allow other apps... For now...)

Forums feel sort of antiquated and I find them hard to keep up with, but they're probably the nicest of the three. Especially this one, since it's more or less standalone - it doesn't exist to make money, harvest data, or be a shitty excuse for tech support for a product. It just is.

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DarkWitchClaire

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Posted on 10-18-20 04:52:30 PM Link | Quote

i find forums to be the best way (at least of what we currently have) to organize long-term discussion and information on the internet. xkeeper made a good post on this a while back, and i find forums to have the least noise out of any communication platform. threading helps you stay away from discussions you aren't interested in even about topics you are, and you can step away for a bit then come back and easily catch up on what you missed. i also don't find them intimidating to post in, since posts can range from one word games to long discussions like this one. the only thing is that you won't expect an immediate reply and traditional forums like these don't offer any incentive to post (which is a good thing, but more modern platforms love to focus on engagement), but nevertheless i find them valuable.

chat rooms in general are good for quick and immediate discussions, and have the advantage of only having members of the community in there (like a forum). the problem is no matter how much history and logging you have, discussions are ephemeral and you can't go back to a discussion without starting it over. i also have a few problems with discord, including servers having many channels but no threads so you would have to check channels you're interested in even if you're not interested in the discussion. i also find discord to be a bit in your face with indicators and notifications, and like every modern chat platform they have incentive to bring in a lot of users and become the only communication platform for them. i find chat rooms work best when they supplement a community rather than become the entirety of it.

social media brings some interesting ideas, but have some inherent design issues beyond just using users as the product. there's incentive for everyone to be there and interact with each other, so you're constantly being exposed to people and views you don't like. even on decentralized social media like mastodon you can't just stay within one community and you'll probably be exposed to whatever drama's going on. it also has gamification built in to drive engagement, which encourages quick shitposts and posts that would gain a lot of attention over anything else.

i personally find that if i want to step away from online communication i'll just log out and lurk or read/watch/play something so there's no need for built in noise

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Rena
I had one (1) message in Discord deleted and proceeded to make a huge, huge mess about how it was a violation of free speech and how moderators are supposed to be spam janitors and nobody should have the right to tell me not to talk about school shootings
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Posted on 10-19-20 02:35:48 PM Link | Quote
Yeah, forums can be a great place to just drop info and do research for someone else to stumble across years later. Just sucks the links and images tend to all be gone by then

Also it's much easier to just look at your own history to recall something you posted a while ago.

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nym
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Posted on 10-19-20 07:47:40 PM Link | Quote
I don't know if it's my age, or just that I'm not really a "gamer" anymore, but I can't get into Discord. Every time someone invites me to a new channel I tell them that I'll join, but I'm just going to continue ignoring it. I do use Discord though, but almost exclusively as a VoIP app. As far as I'm concerned, it could be TeamSpeak or Skype or whatever the flavor of the week is for talking to friends. I'd actually prefer if it wasn't Discord, because I find the UI to be awful, but everybody has it installed already and I don't really care enough to make everyone jump through hoops just to talk to me. That and I'm pretty sure nobody would follow me out of Discord.

If you ask me, it's just not a good means of discussion, and that mostly comes down to the UI. Because it's constrained to a single window, you can't really talk across channels easily. You can't have a DM with a friend going while chatting in another subchannel. I mean, obviously those things are possible, you just can't have both conversations up at the same time. Wasn't that the reason we all started using graphical windows anyway? Imagine if, when Firefox came out with tabbed browsing (I know Firefox wasn't the first do this but stick with me here), you could only use a single window and could never pop one out? Tabs may never have caught on!

Originally posted by Girlydragon

Personally I think one of the best ways to get a better experience out of timelines is to cut away the notion that you absolutely need to follow your friends or anyone else and heavily curate it to become a good experience, because the algorithm will not do that for you.


That's an interesting concept to me. I tried doing it on Facebook--It started with getting rid of my uncles and parents and then moved on to people I was just less interested in interacting with. Now I definitely have a smaller timeline, but it's almost all spam. A few things from my friends and family, followed by a couple ads. Maybe that's just the way facebook is these days? I don't know, I kind of dip in and out of there about as much as I do here on Jul.

Originally posted by GirlyDragon
If Discord was working like social media, it would when you start it up in the morning go "HEY, SOMEONE POSTED A MESSAGE IN #support-channel AND IT SEEMINGLY GOT A LOT OF RESPONSES, WANNA CHECK IT OUT?" and that would be an absolute disaster.


So, as I said, I'm not much of a Discord user, but as I recall, that's actually the default behavior of Discord. Every time I join a new channel, I forget that I need to mute it or get hounded day and night about new posts. It's easy to turn that off, but it seems like Discord very much wants to be in the social media camp.

Anyway, enough complaining about Discord. Let me answer the question. I prefer forums. A forum is like a semi-secret club. I can get some level of anonymity, unless I post some details about myself, but also I'm represented by my unique username, avatar, and sometimes signature and layout so I can show my personality. I can post anything I want to, and if I don't have enough spoons to deal with an issue, well, I'll know not to click that thread because of the subject. (usually).

Originally posted by DarkWitchClaire
traditional forums like these don't offer any incentive to post


I think that's a good thing, actually (And to be clear I don't think you think it's a bad thing, just putting out my two cents). There's nothing making me post, so I only interact because I genuinely want to. An you're only here because you want to be. Nobody feels like they have to go to Jul because they'll miss out if they don't. Everybody just found this forum one way or another, either through friends, or searching for something on the internet, or because they didn't like the politics of that forum, and decided, completely on their own, that they wanted to be part of this community.

And I think community is where it all comes to a head. Consider how many forum friends you have on Discord, Facebook, Twitter, or wherever. You have those friends because you came here and met and a relationship grew. Now think of the friends you met on Discord or other social media. Sure, they exist, but those other mediums are really designed more for people who already know each other. And they're not really communities. They're just chat programs.

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DarkWitchClaire

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Posted on 10-19-20 08:55:52 PM Link | Quote

i think it's a good thing too, but modern platforms promote the idea that "you have to be there" which makes people more likely to stay on them. i've seen some people leave mastodon and go back to twitter, and even heard of a couple people who don't like to use forums because of bad experiences with software or moderation of one particular board.

another advantage to truly decentralized platforms is the ability to tailor your own identity to each place and not have to use a single account. while discord lets you set a nickname for each server you have to use the same account and avatar for all of it, and many social media platforms encourage using your real name or at least tying your account to your irl identity.

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nym
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Posted on 10-19-20 09:05:39 PM Link | Quote
Oh I forgot to mention, modern forum software like Discourse and Vanilla are terrible, terrible replacement for real forums. They're glorified comments sections, not real forums.

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Girlydragon
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Posted on 10-19-20 09:19:08 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by nym
Originally posted by GirlyDragon
If Discord was working like social media, it would when you start it up in the morning go "HEY, SOMEONE POSTED A MESSAGE IN #support-channel AND IT SEEMINGLY GOT A LOT OF RESPONSES, WANNA CHECK IT OUT?" and that would be an absolute disaster.


So, as I said, I'm not much of a Discord user, but as I recall, that's actually the default behavior of Discord. Every time I join a new channel, I forget that I need to mute it or get hounded day and night about new posts. It's easy to turn that off, but it seems like Discord very much wants to be in the social media camp.



Notifications for chat programs have always been a thing, and you can freely set them however you want. If you mute a channel, you will get no notifications, if you have it unmuted you will get passive notifcations in the form of an icon showing that there are new messages, while you can also set stuff to actually actively notify you. All of those are very on/off, you set them and forget them, it is vastly different to the social media "follow this person and get some of their posts in your timeline" system of doing things.

The first time a channel I do not care about on discord notifies me I can mute it, if I get irrelevant content on twitter I need to say "I would say less content like this" and hope the algorithm understands me.

I guess I should clarify, that by social media I mean timeline based websites/programs, and while Discord slowly is going toward some of those "features" it is still respects you to make your own decisions regarding how you want to interact with content, mostly at least.

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Ninji

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Posted on 10-21-20 01:21:51 AM Link | Quote
I used to like forums a lot when I was younger, but I feel like the format just doesn't work quite as well for me these days.

I'm not quite sure what it is -- me getting used to other forms of communication probably factors into it to some extent. The lack of immediacy in forum replies is both a blessing and a curse. It's hard to keep up when there's lots of posting going on (like with the recent sprees)... but on the other hand, when it's quiet, there's not much motivation to actually pay attention.

Every mode of communication sucks in some way I guess D:

Discord is annoyingly lacking in customisation (and the UI makes it a pain to pay attention to multiple servers at once). Twitter is the only social media I bother with, and I do enjoy it even though there's a lot of terrible aspects to it - I mute heavily, turn off RTs for most of the people I follow, and just treat it like a big IRC channel.
plushifoxed

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Posted on 10-21-20 10:08:28 AM Link | Quote
Roxie
i do still like forums, but i dont really have the wherewithal to participate in them at this very moment

i actually had a weird epiphany yesterday

something i find appealing about larger discord servers that a lot of IRC old heads dislike,
is that channels effectively become the equivalent of pinned forum topics

i dont blame people for preferring "well back in the day all that stuff was on the forum,
and the irc was just for ephemeral, then-and-there chat"

but idk, something feels good about the mashing together of the two. makes the ol brain go brrrrr

as for twitter, ive basically spent the past 10 years using it as "one big irc channel"
but theyve spent the past 3-4 of those years making that particular use case
continuously and intentionally much more difficult in favor of chasing ad money

im happy to have discord as an alternative even if it does play into some of those
"PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!! AAAA!!!!!!" impulses that full-on parasocial media thrives on

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Rambly

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Posted on 10-21-20 02:46:16 PM Link | Quote
i actually largely agree about discord, but i'd add that i like the fluidity discord has. sometimes it does function more similarly to just one long pinned thread, but sometimes it becomes active and fast-paced the way an IRC chatroom would be. i don't praise discord a lot, but i like the idea that it can shift from one end of the chatty spectrum to the other and even places in between really fluidly.

Originally posted by Roxie
as for twitter, ive basically spent the past 10 years using it as "one big irc channel"

i never felt all that comfortable using it as one big IRC channel. i don't know why, i knew a lotta people that used it that way and i always wanted to join in! but i was also always way-too-cognizant of the fact that literally everyone on the website -- essentially, in the world -- could see my tweets.

like... it's a lot more alarming to get a notification from a random person you don't know on Twitter, when you don't know who your audience is, when you don't know how they're going to interpret what you say. IRC channels are a little different because you can see the userlist, you know exactly who your message is going to reach, you can get to know the community that's already there before jumping in.

i've spent most of the past ten years on Twitter constantly padlocked and scared on some level and wanting to get The Hell off of it.

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nym
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Posted on 10-21-20 03:13:59 PM Link | Quote
I think Roxie just clued me in to why I'm so suspicious of Discord. They're not chasing ad revenue. I can't believe that Nitro sales are enough to keep the platform running, and even if they're selling our data (which we all know they are), that can't fill in the gaps. Where is the money coming from? Or rather, how long will the venture capital last until Discord is just as ad-ridden as Facebook and Twitter and all the rest.

On (most) forums, that will never be an issue, because in general they're small enough that either the owner can cover the hosting costs, or at the very least a few diehards can make up the rest with donations here and there.

Originally posted by Roxie
i do still like forums, but i dont really have the wherewithal to participate in them at this very moment


I think this is actually my favorite thing about forums. I frequently go through bouts of just not wanting to be on a particular forum (not for any reason, just, you know.), but when I come back, all threads I missed are marked as new, and if it's something I'd be interested in reading, I can quickly skim through it, read the posts I want, and move on. And I can mark the threads I care less about as read. On a discord channel, everything is just lumped into one big chat, so if you go even a few days without checking it, well, those conversations are, for the most part, gone. And it's not even a consideration with most other forms of social media.

Ahh, I really like this thread, it's reigniting my love of the humble web forum. I'm glad I stumbled across this place, and that I just happened to come back during this bout of activity. Thanks for being there~

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Rena
I had one (1) message in Discord deleted and proceeded to make a huge, huge mess about how it was a violation of free speech and how moderators are supposed to be spam janitors and nobody should have the right to tell me not to talk about school shootings
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Posted on 10-22-20 12:51:56 AM Link | Quote
They're still in early stages of the cycle of Web 2.0:


  2. Create cool new thing

    2. Offer an API and encourage - maybe even pay - people to develop cool and unique apps to gather lots of attention
    3. Be totally inclusive and welcome absolutely everyone

  3. Become big
  4. Start focusing on revenue

    2. Cripple the API to force people onto your own shitty app full of ads
    3. Add profitable features nobody asked for - especially remove existing features and charge to have them back
    4. Start gradually banning "adult"/"offensive" content and anything your advertisers don't like
    5. Make your UI and/or content as awful as possible to drive away anyone with enough brain cells to give a damn about how shitty you now are

  5. Slowly fade into obscurity and be replaced


As the introduction of "stickers" shows (and before that, Nitro), they're just at the early stages of step 3 (but they did 3.1 from the beginning by banning all third party/modified clients).

Also, don't underestimate how much you can make off harvesting sensitive information about millions of users. Lots of intimate conversations, photos, voices, and video streams flow through those servers unencrypted, and analytics is super hot right now. No doubt they're raking in tons by "not selling" your data. (If you allow third parties to run aggregate queries such as "give me a bunch of people who are interested in subject X, are above age Y, and use device Z", technically your data doesn't leave the server... )

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Jill
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Posted on 10-22-20 03:17:28 AM Link | Quote
a problem i have with forums is that they tend to make me excessively second-guess myself so it can take a ridiculous amount of time and energy to drop a single post

a problem i have with discord is that discussions relevant to my interests just completely pass me by on servers and channels i pay less attention to. also the search function is kinda bad if you need to find something that was said a long time ago

a problem i have with social media is that it's mismanaged as all hell by people who are just following the money. i'm only still on twitter because tweetdeck strangely still exists and still allows me to organize and filter stuff

nothing's perfect, but right now i'd say i'm most cozy with discord. it feels like a nice balance between discussion and shitpost and doesn't make me anxious in the slightest
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Posted on 10-22-20 03:38:28 AM (last edited by fimbul at 10-26-20 10:30:08 AM) Link | Quote
I think the big thing that makes discord preferable over twitter is that it's more closed off and literally unsearchable unless you're there.

Forums strike an balance in that it's usually only populated by people of a specific interest while being fully searchable, and people feel like they should commit more to their posts since their posts exists in clearly marked out threads. Usually.

On twitter the big issue is that everyone is there, from USA president, people who sell furry NSFW drawings, literal children and outright nazis. There's way too many people on one website and it's constant failings is a reminder of how unmoderatable such a site is. It's a mess. And the sheer amount of messages makes it really hard to find, make and maintain communities. Almost all of them eventually move to something like discord or telegram.

Another thing, it's kind of weird seeing projects live almost entirely on discord instead of forums these days. It's strange because I feel the throwaway instant nature of discord doesn't really help development since a lot more talk than shop happens.
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Posted on 10-23-20 04:31:48 PM Link | Quote
forums work great for rom hacking or little freeware things that need a masterpost and then a following thread of support and shit

besides that and forum games, they're not super feasible for conversation. unless you like multi-paragraph pages like this
nym
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Posted on 10-23-20 07:17:54 PM Link | Quote
And I do!

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Sheeza
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Posted on 10-23-20 08:02:28 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Jill
also the search function is kinda bad

understatement of the year, the discord search feature is downright awful

Honestly the big thing that discord has going for me is that even if the computer is off I don't just miss all the messages, which is honestly one of the big perks I had about IRC. And of course streams, streams so much.

I avoid social media like a plague, very, very bad experiences there.

Long time ago I used to be a member of forums (I know, forums in 2020, hard to believe) but unfortunately people in those forums were complete jerks towards me so I just hide deep in the depths of the Internet these days and don't talk to anyone except those who I consider close friends (which is... not that many tbh).
Gibson
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Posted on 10-24-20 07:14:06 PM Link | Quote
forums are the best for long posts or long term discussion, but most of them are pretty quiet now

discord sucks in most ways but it's where people are and it works
the server setup makes a pretty big difference to how nice it is to use, some are fine but some are just nasty to be on regardless of the community

social media is a hellscape
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TidyHTML vomit below
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line 119 column 11 - Warning: <form> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 118 column 10 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 120 column 11 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 120 column 119 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 124 column 16 - Warning: plain text isn't allowed in <tr> elements
line 120 column 11 - Info: <tr> previously mentioned
line 125 column 68 - Warning: missing </nobr> before </td>
line 141 column 68 - Warning: missing </nobr> before <tr>
line 147 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 147 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 148 column 37 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&id"
line 147 column 193 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 149 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 149 column 97 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 149 column 130 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 149 column 163 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 149 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 149 column 198 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 156 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 158 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 176 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 177 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 179 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 179 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 194 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 196 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 214 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 215 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 217 column 353 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 217 column 214 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 217 column 941 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 217 column 214 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 217 column 1562 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 217 column 214 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 217 column 2128 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 217 column 214 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 217 column 2661 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 217 column 214 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 241 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 243 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 261 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 262 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 264 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 264 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 272 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 274 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 292 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 293 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 305 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 307 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 325 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 326 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 328 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 328 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 334 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 336 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 354 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 355 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 379 column 5091 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 357 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 382 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 384 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 402 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 403 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 411 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 413 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 431 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 432 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 436 column 657 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 434 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 439 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 441 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 459 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 460 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 462 column 353 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 462 column 214 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 462 column 941 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 462 column 214 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 462 column 1562 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 462 column 214 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 462 column 2128 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 462 column 214 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 462 column 2661 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 462 column 214 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 474 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 476 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 494 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 495 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 506 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 508 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 526 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 527 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 529 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 529 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 549 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 551 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 569 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 570 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 572 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 572 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 582 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 584 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 602 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 603 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 615 column 2226 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 605 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 618 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 620 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 638 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 639 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 641 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 641 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 644 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 646 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 647 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 648 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 649 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 650 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 652 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 653 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 654 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 655 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 656 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 657 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 658 column 1 - Warning: missing <li>
line 666 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 668 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 686 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 687 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 698 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 700 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 718 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 719 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 730 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 732 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 750 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 751 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 758 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 760 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 778 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 779 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 783 column 488 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 781 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 786 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 788 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 806 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 807 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 819 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 821 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 839 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 840 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 850 column 17 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 850 column 17 - Warning: discarding unexpected <table>
line 853 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 853 column 97 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 853 column 130 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 853 column 163 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 853 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 853 column 198 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 855 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 855 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 856 column 37 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&id"
line 855 column 193 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 857 column 17 - Warning: discarding unexpected </textarea>
line 857 column 28 - Warning: discarding unexpected </form>
line 857 column 35 - Warning: discarding unexpected </embed>
line 857 column 43 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noembed>
line 857 column 53 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noscript>
line 857 column 64 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noembed>
line 857 column 74 - Warning: discarding unexpected </embed>
line 857 column 82 - Warning: discarding unexpected </table>
line 857 column 90 - Warning: discarding unexpected </table>
line 859 column 9 - Warning: missing </font> before <table>
line 871 column 25 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 880 column 57 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 858 column 1 - Warning: missing </center>
line 120 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 125 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 125 column 93 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 141 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 141 column 98 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 148 column 43 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 140 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 244 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 160 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 162 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 172 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 198 column 16 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 198 column 16 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 198 column 59 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 198 column 59 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 198 column 102 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 198 column 102 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 198 column 145 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 198 column 145 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 198 column 188 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 198 column 188 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 198 column 231 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 198 column 231 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 199 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 199 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 199 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 199 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 200 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 210 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 246 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 246 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 246 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 246 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 257 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 276 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 277 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 277 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 277 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 277 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 278 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 288 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 296 column 1036 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 302 column 3627 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 310 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 310 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 310 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 310 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 321 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 328 column 686 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 328 column 686 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 339 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 339 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 339 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 339 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 340 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 350 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 386 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 387 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 387 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 387 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 387 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 388 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 398 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 406 column 1036 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 408 column 1905 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 416 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 416 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 416 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 416 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 417 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 427 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 434 column 74 - Warning: <div> anchor "nympost" already defined
line 443 column 16 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 443 column 16 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 443 column 59 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 443 column 59 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 443 column 102 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 443 column 102 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 443 column 145 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 443 column 145 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 443 column 188 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 443 column 188 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 443 column 231 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 443 column 231 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 444 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 444 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 444 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 444 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 445 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 455 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 478 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 479 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 479 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 479 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 479 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 480 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 490 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 510 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 511 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 511 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 511 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 511 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 512 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 522 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 553 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 554 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 554 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 554 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 554 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 555 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 587 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 587 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 587 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 587 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 588 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 598 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 605 column 74 - Warning: <div> anchor "nympost" already defined
line 623 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 634 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 662 column 2150 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 662 column 2150 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 671 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 671 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 671 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 671 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 672 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 682 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 703 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 703 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 703 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 703 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 704 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 714 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 735 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 735 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 735 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 735 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 746 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 763 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 763 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 763 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 763 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 764 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 774 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 781 column 74 - Warning: <div> anchor "nympost" already defined
line 791 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 791 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 791 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 791 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 802 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 824 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 824 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 824 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 824 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 825 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 835 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 856 column 43 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 856 column 140 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 856 column 244 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 865 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 870 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 850 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 215 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 217 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 262 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 293 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 326 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 355 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 403 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 432 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 460 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 462 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 495 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 527 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 570 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 603 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 639 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 687 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 719 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 751 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 779 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 807 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 840 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 349 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md