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Jul - News - There was yet another school shooting New poll - New thread - New reply
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Xkeeper

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Posted on 02-15-18 04:50:03 PM (last edited by Xkeeper at 02-15-18 05:00:38 PM) Link | Quote
Thoughts and prayers, etc, etc.

I remember when the media tried to present there being some worry about ~"copycat"~ crimes, and now it's just a thing that seems to happen all the time. Mass shootings in general moreso, but just. Christ.

It would be nice if something, anything concrete was done about the gun problem here.

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Posted on 02-15-18 05:08:26 PM Link | Quote
its really a shame how many of these have been happening for the past 3 years as far as i can remember.

it really hits me most when one of my online mutuals was in the school during the shooting
he's ok though

his small brief tweet about it

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Posted on 02-15-18 05:08:40 PM Link | Quote
kazinsal@araxes> show file jul:/posts/kazinsal/573

What's that Onion article they repost several times a year? "No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens"?

At the risk of invoking an argument, god damn am I ever glad we do gun control right in Canada. Firearms classification, licensing based on classification, regular background checks, a significant waiting period on licensing, mandatory safety courses and exams. Handguns and other restricted have additional restrictions on storage and transport and require a license that has an additional safety course behind it and the RCMP conducts interviews with the references you put on your application.

I can count the number of school shootings that have happened here in the past 40 years on one hand.

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Posted on 02-15-18 05:17:46 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kazinsal
What's that Onion article they repost several times a year? "No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens"?

yep

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Posted on 02-15-18 05:48:48 PM Link | Quote
It was really sombering seeing that article repurposed when the mass murder happened here in town. Nearly sixty dead.

Canada gun control

I don't know why you would think this would generate an argument here (or at least one that would end badly); I think all of us here are for at least some gun control, even if most of them aren't quite as extreme as I am.

In my case, I want to see them all melted down into metal sludge and recycled into something better.

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Posted on 02-15-18 06:31:54 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
It was really sombering seeing that article repurposed when the mass murder happened here in town. Nearly sixty dead.
christ, i can't even imagine. i'm so lucky i've never had anything like that happen close by...

Originally posted by Xkeeper
In my case, I want to see them all melted down into metal sludge and recycled into something better.
i actually completely agree. a gun literally has no purpose but to kill; that's literally what they're designed to do. in an ideal world they would not exist -- this is gonna sound almost hippie-ish, but the resources we waste building weapons in general could go towards so many better things

maybe more controversially, i just see all of this shit as another permutation of capitalism... the goal of gun companies is the maximization of profit, and it doesn't matter to them what the consequences are even if it involves mass shootings every week... capitalism permeates so many things and hurts so many people, and it's exhausting and depressing

things should not be the way they are

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Posted on 02-15-18 06:33:00 PM Link | Quote
I think guns have some light use, but mostly just in hunting and sport. Outside of those very limited definitions, though, nope.

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Posted on 02-15-18 06:38:00 PM Link | Quote
kazinsal@araxes> show file jul:/posts/kazinsal/574

Originally posted by Xkeeper
I don't know why you would think this would generate an argument here (or at least one that would end badly); I think all of us here are for at least some gun control, even if most of them aren't quite as extreme as I am.

Mostly because I'm still used to the rest of the internet where horrid arguments spawn from opinions on gun control.

It's hard to find a workable solution for America because no matter what you do you're going to need to send in the National Guard to take two hundred million guns by force and a lot of people are going to die. I guess the best to do is ban them, recycle the mass production crap, and send the interesting stuff to museums or export them to countries that aren't trash fires. And hope the National Guard has modern body armour.

Thinking about it, there could be some actually really scientifically useful benefits from recycling guns. There's probably a lot of low-background steel to be salvaged from most guns made before 1945.

Also, probably more controversial, but we should lock all the NRA lobbyists in Guantanamo-style concrete cells with their favourite personal firearms and one bullet.

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Posted on 02-15-18 06:43:37 PM Link | Quote
Yeah, Biathlon (aka Skidskytte) is actually one of the more interesting skiing related sports if you ask me. Since it combines both distance skiing with having to focus on shooting, sometimes in harsh weather!

But outside of that I'm really against the existence of firearms, they are really not very beneficial for much at all. I think it's kind of sad that you get called out for starting shit and being disrespectful for the dead when you bring up a need for gun regulations when these mass shootings happen, because like, it's not a new thing, and clearly something needs to change to prevent it.

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Posted on 02-16-18 03:25:37 AM (last edited by Kawaii-e at 01-30-22 05:56:03 AM) Link | Quote


KawaiiImoto-e
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Not again, but I didn't read any blame for video games, yet.

I may life in a country where it's relatively easy to get firearms compared to our neigbours, but outside of shooting ranges, I never heard a weapon.

And about the onions article, the recommended articles to read next where, the same, the same and the same.

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Posted on 02-16-18 03:41:32 AM Link | Quote

Kind of a hot take of sorts. don't know if this is the right place for this so I'll spoiler it. If it isn't the right place, should a separate thread be made?
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Posted on 02-16-18 04:25:26 AM Link | Quote
another hot take somewhat in the same vain as mirzabas;


i was up last night reading about the shooting in florida and reading the first hand accounts of people, seeing them worry about their friends and families. my thoughts are definitely with those affected right now, its horrific to imagine what theyve been through.
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Posted on 02-16-18 10:09:02 AM Link | Quote
In all of this, I’m more interested in:

1) What are the current gun regulations and processes that are on the books at the state level for Florida and at the Federal level.

2) How the nut in Parkland was able to get a gun in the first place.

There might be more questions to ask but until people understand and can answer the two questions above in detail, you really can’t do anything about shootings like this in an effective way.

I keep hearing that the nut had red flags prior to the shooting. I totally believe it but don’t know the full details on this or how he got a free pass on the red flags.
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Posted on 02-16-18 06:20:43 PM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 02-16-18 06:24:44 PM) Link | Quote
In Florida, you're required to have a Concealed Carry license. However, it's otherwise pretty open, with no state license required to purchase guns, no firearm registration required (though no making lists of firearm owners), and currently no assault weapon law.

The killer was part of the Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps and I've not seen any media that says he was dishonorably discharged, meaning he would have been allowed to keep possession of the guns. The FBI were also aware of his creepy social media posts, though they couldn't find his identity and thus couldn't do any actions.

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Posted on 02-16-18 08:17:17 PM Link | Quote
I'll offer the extremely cold take about what Australia did in the wake of the mass shooting in Port Arthur in 1996. In the wake of the massacre, our government put in huge gun law reforms, despite great pushback, and people pretty much… surrendered their guns. There was a buy-back scheme and I remember we had hunting rifles that we surrendered.

Since then, we've not had a single mass shooting, and rates of suicide also dropped.

It was the best thing John Howard ever did and despite all the other awful things he did as PM, I'll give him credit for this one.

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Posted on 02-16-18 08:29:45 PM Link | Quote
kazinsal@araxes> show file jul:/posts/kazinsal/578

The big problem is that America has a deeply broken culture overall, and the gun problem makes it so much easier for the murderous part of the culture to show up in international news feeds every few days. We didn't have many massacres here before the two or three gun control acts we have were put into place. We haven't even had one since we loosened a few firearms laws. We're just not a country with a violent culture.

This is kind of morbid, but I genuinely wonder what America would be trying to kill each other with if suddenly there were no more guns.

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Posted on 02-16-18 08:33:22 PM Link | Quote
They (we?) would probably be killing each other a lot less, because removing guns increases the "effort required" by a large amount. It's a lot harder to murder 58 people and wound countless others without a weapon specifically designed to be pointed at things and make them dead.

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Posted on 02-16-18 08:50:47 PM Link | Quote
it would be the only redeemable thing about trump if he were to take those steps and apply gun control laws to revoke weapons from people.. X_X but im extremely doubtful that anything will be done about it at all. that the people who experienced the shooting first hand are acutely aware of their family and friends deaths being just another number in the face of the state of US right now. it looks like its only getting more hand-waving from media and politicians though. "just another day in america."

i shared this on mastodon because this really is the mindset of many americans;


people here really do believe that we need guns to defend ourself from other people with guns. i do believe self-defense is invaluable, but what does more guns accomplish? only tragedies like this can come from it. the average person does not want to carry a gun around everywhere, living like that doesn't make sense. people who want to carry a gun with them in public places are overwhelmingly some combination of egotistical or paranoid as far as i can tell.

ive got family members who play with guns like they are toys. ive heard accounts of people having guns waved in their faces by people who are overly comfortable with them. people vaguely talk about gun safety here, in schools and whatnot, but the majority still feels confident enough to treat them like they dont have the ability to kill someone at any given moment, either on a whim or completely by accident.

additionally to this, people will make fun of you if youre uncomfortable with the idea of guns. "they can't hurt you if you know what youre doing!" is a common thing to hear. people are socially trained to be comfortable with the idea of them. its just part of the culture in america.
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Posted on 02-16-18 08:56:43 PM Link | Quote
kazinsal@araxes> show file jul:/posts/kazinsal/579

I should point out that in the case of America, I do sincerely believe that as long as there's rampant violence, little to no gun control, and the right wing is arming itself with intent to defend their hatred against leftists, the left needs to be ready to arm the fuck up in self-defence.

I don't think a bad guy with a gun is stopped by a good guy with a gun, but a bad guy suppressing schools of thought with a gun isn't going to be stopped by people from those schools standing firm and vowing to resist the bullets.

The solution is to get rid of guns but that's not going to happen in an America that is degenerating into massively-supported neoconservative authoritarianism with legions of people who would commit violent atrocities to defend that degeneration.

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Posted on 02-16-18 09:06:10 PM Link | Quote
completely agree with you kaz
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Jul - News - There was yet another school shooting New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic
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line 125 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 125 column 93 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 141 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 141 column 98 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 148 column 43 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 140 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 244 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 161 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 162 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 172 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 191 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 191 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 191 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 191 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 192 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 202 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 222 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 222 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 222 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 222 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 223 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 233 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 240 column 1187 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 255 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 256 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 256 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 256 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 256 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 257 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 267 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 283 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 283 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 283 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 283 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 284 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 294 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 301 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 313 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 314 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 314 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 314 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 314 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 315 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 325 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 346 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 346 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 346 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 346 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 347 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 357 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 364 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 372 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 372 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 372 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 372 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 373 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 383 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 390 column 1187 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 408 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 409 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 409 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 409 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 409 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 410 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 420 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 427 column 1209 - Warning: <font> attribute "size" has invalid value "+0,5"
line 429 column 1899 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 429 column 1899 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 430 column 2002 - Warning: <font> attribute "size" has invalid value "+0,5"
line 437 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 438 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 438 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 438 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 438 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 439 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 449 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 460 column 856 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 464 column 1949 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 464 column 2032 - Warning: <img> attribute "width" has invalid value "99.3"
line 464 column 2032 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 474 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 474 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 475 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 485 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 502 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 502 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 503 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 513 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 530 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 531 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 531 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 531 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 531 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 532 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 542 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 564 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 566 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 576 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 585 column 710 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 593 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 593 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 593 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 593 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 594 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 604 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 624 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 634 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 641 column 1187 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 655 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 655 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 655 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 655 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 656 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 666 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 673 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 681 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 681 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 682 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 692 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 702 column 669 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 716 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 716 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 716 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 716 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 727 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 734 column 1187 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 750 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 750 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 751 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 761 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 777 column 43 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 777 column 140 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 777 column 244 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 786 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 791 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 430 column 2002 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 460 column 503 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 460 column 771 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 460 column 768 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 464 column 2164 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 494 column 240 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 494 column 300 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 494 column 349 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 494 column 1256 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 521 column 133 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 521 column 193 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 521 column 242 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 771 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 207 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 238 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 272 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 299 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 330 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 362 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 388 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 425 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 454 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 456 column 111 - Warning: <div> proprietary attribute "height"
line 460 column 707 - Warning: <tr> proprietary attribute "height"
line 460 column 856 - Warning: <font> proprietary attribute "align"
line 460 column 927 - Warning: <font> proprietary attribute "align"
line 464 column 1324 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "background"
line 464 column 1324 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 464 column 1450 - Warning: <tr> proprietary attribute "height"
line 464 column 1622 - Warning: <tr> proprietary attribute "height"
line 464 column 1694 - Warning: <tr> proprietary attribute "height"
line 464 column 1876 - Warning: <tr> proprietary attribute "height"
line 490 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 518 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 547 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 581 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 609 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 639 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 671 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 697 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 732 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 766 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 353 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md