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05-26-18 01:55:39 PM

Jul - News - There was yet another school shooting New poll - New thread - New reply
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Xkeeper

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Posted on 02-15-18 01:50:03 PM (last edited by Xkeeper at 02-15-18 02:00:38 PM) Link | Quote
Thoughts and prayers, etc, etc.

I remember when the media tried to present there being some worry about ~"copycat"~ crimes, and now it's just a thing that seems to happen all the time. Mass shootings in general moreso, but just. Christ.

It would be nice if something, anything concrete was done about the gun problem here.
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Posted on 02-15-18 02:08:26 PM Link | Quote
its really a shame how many of these have been happening for the past 3 years as far as i can remember.

it really hits me most when one of my online mutuals was in the school during the shooting
he's ok though

his small brief tweet about it
Kazinsal
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Posted on 02-15-18 02:08:40 PM Link | Quote
What's that Onion article they repost several times a year? "No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens"?

At the risk of invoking an argument, god damn am I ever glad we do gun control right in Canada. Firearms classification, licensing based on classification, regular background checks, a significant waiting period on licensing, mandatory safety courses and exams. Handguns and other restricted have additional restrictions on storage and transport and require a license that has an additional safety course behind it and the RCMP conducts interviews with the references you put on your application.

I can count the number of school shootings that have happened here in the past 40 years on one hand.
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Posted on 02-15-18 02:17:46 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kazinsal
What's that Onion article they repost several times a year? "No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens"?

yep
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Posted on 02-15-18 02:48:48 PM Link | Quote
It was really sombering seeing that article repurposed when the mass murder happened here in town. Nearly sixty dead.


Canada gun control

I don't know why you would think this would generate an argument here (or at least one that would end badly); I think all of us here are for at least some gun control, even if most of them aren't quite as extreme as I am.

In my case, I want to see them all melted down into metal sludge and recycled into something better.
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Posted on 02-15-18 03:31:54 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
It was really sombering seeing that article repurposed when the mass murder happened here in town. Nearly sixty dead.
christ, i can't even imagine. i'm so lucky i've never had anything like that happen close by...

Originally posted by Xkeeper
In my case, I want to see them all melted down into metal sludge and recycled into something better.
i actually completely agree. a gun literally has no purpose but to kill; that's literally what they're designed to do. in an ideal world they would not exist -- this is gonna sound almost hippie-ish, but the resources we waste building weapons in general could go towards so many better things

maybe more controversially, i just see all of this shit as another permutation of capitalism... the goal of gun companies is the maximization of profit, and it doesn't matter to them what the consequences are even if it involves mass shootings every week... capitalism permeates so many things and hurts so many people, and it's exhausting and depressing

things should not be the way they are
Xkeeper

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Posted on 02-15-18 03:33:00 PM Link | Quote
I think guns have some light use, but mostly just in hunting and sport. Outside of those very limited definitions, though, nope.
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Posted on 02-15-18 03:38:00 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
I don't know why you would think this would generate an argument here (or at least one that would end badly); I think all of us here are for at least some gun control, even if most of them aren't quite as extreme as I am.

Mostly because I'm still used to the rest of the internet where horrid arguments spawn from opinions on gun control.

It's hard to find a workable solution for America because no matter what you do you're going to need to send in the National Guard to take two hundred million guns by force and a lot of people are going to die. I guess the best to do is ban them, recycle the mass production crap, and send the interesting stuff to museums or export them to countries that aren't trash fires. And hope the National Guard has modern body armour.

Thinking about it, there could be some actually really scientifically useful benefits from recycling guns. There's probably a lot of low-background steel to be salvaged from most guns made before 1945.

Also, probably more controversial, but we should lock all the NRA lobbyists in Guantanamo-style concrete cells with their favourite personal firearms and one bullet.
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Posted on 02-15-18 03:43:37 PM Link | Quote
Yeah, Biathlon (aka Skidskytte) is actually one of the more interesting skiing related sports if you ask me. Since it combines both distance skiing with having to focus on shooting, sometimes in harsh weather!

But outside of that I'm really against the existence of firearms, they are really not very beneficial for much at all. I think it's kind of sad that you get called out for starting shit and being disrespectful for the dead when you bring up a need for gun regulations when these mass shootings happen, because like, it's not a new thing, and clearly something needs to change to prevent it.
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Posted on 02-16-18 12:25:37 AM Link | Quote
Not again, but I didn't read any blame for video games, yet.

I may life in a country where it's relatively easy to get firearms compared to our neigbours, but outside of shooting ranges, I never heard a weapon.

And about the onions article, the recommended articles to read next where, the same, the same and the same.
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Posted on 02-16-18 12:41:32 AM Link | Quote

Kind of a hot take of sorts. don't know if this is the right place for this so I'll spoiler it. If it isn't the right place, should a separate thread be made?
Spoiler:
Guns themselves are an intensifier of certain problems, in the same way video games are to a very lesser degree. It's all about memes, in the context of the selfish gene. Bad ideas, behaviors, and perceptions of guns are extremely strong and prevalent in America, and with the accessibility of guns, and to a lesser extent, medias lax perspective of violence, it encourages these crimes to take place more. I think it's okay to own guns, and to consume violent entertainment, but feel like if these things aren't considered, it will hinder the solution. If guns were to get heavily red taped, it would prevent a lot of death. And if media was more sensitive to violence it wouldn't reinforce already unhealthy mentalities and biases some people have. I have unrelated reasons to why I think people should own guns, but in this context, anti-gun people are completely valid in their concerns imo.
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Posted on 02-16-18 01:25:26 AM Link | Quote
another hot take somewhat in the same vain as mirzabas;
Spoiler:
at this point, even if more gun control laws were introduced, i wouldnt expect this to change anything sadly. theres actually reason to believe that workarounds would still happen and that minorities would be affected significantly more by gun restriction laws, re: drug laws. its hard to know what to make of these incidents. this country has always had major issues which i think largely stem from the promotion of fascism (using this as a catchall so its more or less applicable here, but i believe still plays into the larger picture), and lack of proper mental wellness facilities and resources. theres been a need for these things for ages and we still havent seen them as we climb numbers rapidly for school shootings. that said, i would really like to see someone step in and make guns less easy to obtain in the US. its not right that you can walk into a gun show and come out with a gun and never have that thrown into question. its a bandaid at best but preventing even one more incident like this would be reason enough to do it.


i was up last night reading about the shooting in florida and reading the first hand accounts of people, seeing them worry about their friends and families. my thoughts are definitely with those affected right now, its horrific to imagine what theyve been through.
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Posted on 02-16-18 07:09:02 AM Link | Quote
In all of this, I’m more interested in:

1) What are the current gun regulations and processes that are on the books at the state level for Florida and at the Federal level.

2) How the nut in Parkland was able to get a gun in the first place.

There might be more questions to ask but until people understand and can answer the two questions above in detail, you really can’t do anything about shootings like this in an effective way.

I keep hearing that the nut had red flags prior to the shooting. I totally believe it but don’t know the full details on this or how he got a free pass on the red flags.
divingkataetheweirdo

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Posted on 02-16-18 03:20:43 PM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 02-16-18 03:24:44 PM) Link | Quote
In Florida, you're required to have a Concealed Carry license. However, it's otherwise pretty open, with no state license required to purchase guns, no firearm registration required (though no making lists of firearm owners), and currently no assault weapon law.

The killer was part of the Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps and I've not seen any media that says he was dishonorably discharged, meaning he would have been allowed to keep possession of the guns. The FBI were also aware of his creepy social media posts, though they couldn't find his identity and thus couldn't do any actions.
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Posted on 02-16-18 05:17:17 PM Link | Quote
I'll offer the extremely cold take about what Australia did in the wake of the mass shooting in Port Arthur in 1996. In the wake of the massacre, our government put in huge gun law reforms, despite great pushback, and people pretty much… surrendered their guns. There was a buy-back scheme and I remember we had hunting rifles that we surrendered.

Since then, we've not had a single mass shooting, and rates of suicide also dropped.

It was the best thing John Howard ever did and despite all the other awful things he did as PM, I'll give him credit for this one.
Kazinsal
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Posted on 02-16-18 05:29:45 PM Link | Quote
The big problem is that America has a deeply broken culture overall, and the gun problem makes it so much easier for the murderous part of the culture to show up in international news feeds every few days. We didn't have many massacres here before the two or three gun control acts we have were put into place. We haven't even had one since we loosened a few firearms laws. We're just not a country with a violent culture.

This is kind of morbid, but I genuinely wonder what America would be trying to kill each other with if suddenly there were no more guns.
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Posted on 02-16-18 05:33:22 PM Link | Quote
They (we?) would probably be killing each other a lot less, because removing guns increases the "effort required" by a large amount. It's a lot harder to murder 58 people and wound countless others without a weapon specifically designed to be pointed at things and make them dead.
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Posted on 02-16-18 05:50:47 PM Link | Quote
it would be the only redeemable thing about trump if he were to take those steps and apply gun control laws to revoke weapons from people.. X_X but im extremely doubtful that anything will be done about it at all. that the people who experienced the shooting first hand are acutely aware of their family and friends deaths being just another number in the face of the state of US right now. it looks like its only getting more hand-waving from media and politicians though. "just another day in america."

i shared this on mastodon because this really is the mindset of many americans;


people here really do believe that we need guns to defend ourself from other people with guns. i do believe self-defense is invaluable, but what does more guns accomplish? only tragedies like this can come from it. the average person does not want to carry a gun around everywhere, living like that doesn't make sense. people who want to carry a gun with them in public places are overwhelmingly some combination of egotistical or paranoid as far as i can tell.

ive got family members who play with guns like they are toys. ive heard accounts of people having guns waved in their faces by people who are overly comfortable with them. people vaguely talk about gun safety here, in schools and whatnot, but the majority still feels confident enough to treat them like they dont have the ability to kill someone at any given moment, either on a whim or completely by accident.

additionally to this, people will make fun of you if youre uncomfortable with the idea of guns. "they can't hurt you if you know what youre doing!" is a common thing to hear. people are socially trained to be comfortable with the idea of them. its just part of the culture in america.
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Posted on 02-16-18 05:56:43 PM Link | Quote
I should point out that in the case of America, I do sincerely believe that as long as there's rampant violence, little to no gun control, and the right wing is arming itself with intent to defend their hatred against leftists, the left needs to be ready to arm the fuck up in self-defence.

I don't think a bad guy with a gun is stopped by a good guy with a gun, but a bad guy suppressing schools of thought with a gun isn't going to be stopped by people from those schools standing firm and vowing to resist the bullets.

The solution is to get rid of guns but that's not going to happen in an America that is degenerating into massively-supported neoconservative authoritarianism with legions of people who would commit violent atrocities to defend that degeneration.
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Posted on 02-16-18 06:06:10 PM Link | Quote
completely agree with you kaz
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Jul - News - There was yet another school shooting New poll - New thread - New reply




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