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09-24-17 09:25:28 PM

Jul - TCRF - RARE.Ltd's expanded PAL resolution of NES games, add to the site? New poll - New thread - New reply
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TR3KT
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Posted on 02-05-17 12:16:14 AM Link | Quote
Hey guys, this is my first post on the forum. i've done some contributions to the TCRF and found regional differences with some RARE games released in PAL territories for Battletoads and it's sequel. I was wondering if there was anyone else who noticed the usage of the full NES resolution in PAL RARE games.
divingkataetheweirdo

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Posted on 02-05-17 12:23:31 AM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 02-05-17 12:29:07 AM) Link | Quote
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I thought the NES could only display up to 256*240 (even with PAL). Of course, the NES signal itself was scaled up by TVs.

EDIT: Apparently, you don't have your emulator set up to display NES at a 1:1 pixel ratio, resulting in uneven pixels. Please check your emulator settings.
KingMike
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Posted on 02-06-17 01:34:13 AM (last edited by KingMike at 02-06-17 01:35:36 AM) Link | Quote
I didn't check but it's true that NES can display 256x240, but it seems NTSC games were usually if not always designed to assume at least the top and bottom 8 lines would never be seen due to overscan (giving effectively 256x224).

So that is the question: did Rare do anything useful with the increased (presumed) visible space?
Xkeeper






Posted on 02-06-17 02:15:48 AM Link | Quote
To clarify, the NES used different television formats between NTSC (Americas, Japan) and PAL (Europe).

NTSC is 60 frames per second, and has a resolution of (about) 256 × 224.
PAL is 50 frames per second, and has a resolution of (about) 256 × 240 &emdash; 8 pixels taller in each direction.

If the regional differences are significant (e.g. moving a status bar upwards or downwards, rearranging it to fit more information, etc.), then there is some merit. If it is just because more of the screen is shown, that is not really significant.

Do you have any example images?
TR3KT
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Posted on 02-06-17 04:24:18 AM Link | Quote
not sure how to show you guys an image on the forum itself, so i'll link you to the uploads on TCRF

PAL (EU/AUS): https://tcrf.net/File:BT_PAL.png

NTSC (US/JP): https://tcrf.net/File:BT_NTSC.png

What i'm trying to ask is if this is something worth putting into the TCRF wiki.

(BTW, divingkataetheweirdo it's was set to the same 224 X 256 for both images)
divingkataetheweirdo

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Posted on 02-06-17 04:29:23 AM Link | Quote
First, something is horribly wrong with your capture software. It outputs out at 292 * 240, not 256 * 240. You might want to make sure your emulator isn't stretching out the image.

Second, yes, if the game is altered such that more is visible or HUD elements are moved around, then yes, it is worth documenting.
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Posted on 02-06-17 07:12:46 PM Link | Quote
Comparing the ROMs, yes, the HUD placement is different. The US version is 36px tall, while the EU version is 21px tall, making the game field 15px taller.

Oddly even the JP HUD is slightly different at 37px tall.
KingMike
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Posted on 02-10-17 09:06:18 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
To clarify, the NES used different television formats between NTSC (Americas, Japan) and PAL (Europe).

NTSC is 60 frames per second, and has a resolution of (about) 256 × 224.
PAL is 50 frames per second, and has a resolution of (about) 256 × 240 &emdash; 8 pixels taller in each direction.


On a CRT, there will be overscan and NTSC will show 224 or less, but I know using a video capture device (without TV tuning) it can show 240 lines, probably so on an HDTV (though I've only really tried that once, as people who have tried an NES on HD will be immediately scared by the shitty quality of upscaled composite).
I can recall playing Galaxy Odyssey (FDS) and being able to see the hidden "0" sprite in the top corner of the screen (I assume the game is using Sprite 0 Hit for timing effects.) (in addition to the normal HUD display of a life meter and Oxygen count at the top of the screen)

I think the device I used was a Dazzle Video Recorder like a decade ago to record playing Dragon Scroll for the Famicom on a front-loader NES with the official NES-JOINT-1 converter.
I can find my video of it if you like, it's a good example of a game that was designed to assume overscan was present.
(I had to hack the whole window drawing just to extend the text window like 2 tiles without the game freaking out thanks to inefficient coding, possibly pushing the timing limit of Vblank.)
TR3KT
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Posted on 06-18-17 05:55:24 AM Link | Quote
alright, it's all added now. i did it a while ago actually...

i just forgot to tell you on here!
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Jul - TCRF - RARE.Ltd's expanded PAL resolution of NES games, add to the site? New poll - New thread - New reply




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