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12-17-17 08:24:40 AM

Jul - Meta - Is there anything you'd like to see here? New poll - New thread - New reply
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Xkeeper






Posted on 12-22-16 11:36:26 PM Link | Quote
This is supposed to be an open-ended forum, but I figured I would prompt.

New forums? Features? Sanqui had mentioned wanting a pastebin for TCRF things, that sort of stuff.
brian151
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Posted on 12-23-16 12:05:54 AM Link | Quote
perhaps a forum dedicated to messing around with game engines/frameworks/platforms rather than specific games. (This would include plugin-based systems, that the browsers are finally trying to exterminate.)

These topics do feel quite out of place in the main game hacking forum, and I might have at least a few topics of this nature besides the one I've already started. (one project is secret, though, as it'd receive a C&D the second it was known to exist)

Just a suggestion...

More jokingly, turn your little squid guy (what's his name again?) into a little interactive pet! XD



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Posted on 12-23-16 05:42:16 AM (last edited by Kak at 12-23-16 07:31:36 AM) Link | Quote
Thread descriptions

though now that a certain other project is done, I should probably submitted a pull request for this (implying I got around to do it)
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Posted on 12-23-16 01:01:20 PM Link | Quote
Hugs! 'w'



There haven't really been any functionalities that I have felt have been missing during my time here. "Project pages" for personal projects would be neat, but kind of infeasible given that people are doing so many different things around here.
Xkeeper






Posted on 12-29-16 08:34:18 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kak
Thread descriptions

though now that a certain other project is done, I should probably submitted a pull request for this (implying I got around to do it)

I said it elsewhere, but I want to reiterate here (just to keep it close) that I think thread descriptions are mostly just worthless clutter, and that thread titles should be descriptive already.
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Posted on 12-29-16 09:08:18 PM Link | Quote
I agree about thread descriptions being unnecessary clutter. But I do think we should get more forums. The way I see it, they might encourage new discussion in the form of new threads specifically relevant to the forum, and at worst, they fail and we move all the threads to a similar forum and delete. I see no harm!

Of course, the problem right now, I think, is that we have very generic forums, so almost anything I can think of would already fit in one of the more generic forums. I was thinking of the gaming forum as an example of this. There is nothing more specific than the Gaming forum, but then it also feels overkill to post a very specific thread like asking a question about Pokemon Sun/Moon or asking for a trade because there is already a Pokemon Sun/Moon thread. But a post in a big thread like that would be more easily missed. Another example, also in gaming, it feels kinda overkill to make a thread to discuss one aspect of one Zelda game (what are your thoughts on the water temple of OOT?) in such a generic forum, but there's also not a Zelda Discussion thread -- do we create a "Zelda Dungeon Design Megathread" and let everything pile up there?

Basically, is it more beneficial for activity to have only a couple forums and have them full of "The XYZ Megathread" or do we have more forums that allow for a greater variety of highly specific threads?
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Posted on 12-29-16 09:25:38 PM Link | Quote
To elaborate on that, I think some more specific topic forums could attract users of that interest. (Especially if there are users here who can help kick it off!) What's the saying, "Build it and they shall come"?

We used to have specific a ROMhacking forum, but it's not weird that not many users sign up because of that, it's a dying art, after all. In contrast, I believe a fair amount of our new users have found this place via TCRF. :p
Xkeeper






Posted on 12-29-16 09:29:55 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lunaria
To elaborate on that, I think some more specific topic forums could attract users of that interest. (Especially if there are users here who can help kick it off!) What's the saying, "Build it and they shall come"?

We used to have specific a ROMhacking forum, but it's not weird that not many users sign up because of that, it's a dying art, after all. In contrast, I believe a fair amount of our new users have found this place via TCRF. :p

Used to?
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Posted on 12-29-16 09:31:56 PM Link | Quote
I mean, I know we still have it, but it's just a much smaller part now, and stuff...
Xkeeper






Posted on 12-29-16 09:32:38 PM Link | Quote
That's more a symptom of there being many other places to discuss that matter than here. Renaming it moving it isn't going to make people come back for it.
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Posted on 12-29-16 09:36:46 PM Link | Quote
Obviously, I didn't mean to suggest we should try to drive people here with the ROMhacking forum. I guess I didn't get across what I meant, hurm.
Xkeeper






Posted on 12-29-16 10:44:14 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by FieryIce
I agree about thread descriptions being unnecessary clutter. But I do think we should get more forums. The way I see it, they might encourage new discussion in the form of new threads specifically relevant to the forum, and at worst, they fail and we move all the threads to a similar forum and delete. I see no harm!

Of course, the problem right now, I think, is that we have very generic forums, so almost anything I can think of would already fit in one of the more generic forums. I was thinking of the gaming forum as an example of this. There is nothing more specific than the Gaming forum, but then it also feels overkill to post a very specific thread like asking a question about Pokemon Sun/Moon or asking for a trade because there is already a Pokemon Sun/Moon thread. But a post in a big thread like that would be more easily missed. Another example, also in gaming, it feels kinda overkill to make a thread to discuss one aspect of one Zelda game (what are your thoughts on the water temple of OOT?) in such a generic forum, but there's also not a Zelda Discussion thread -- do we create a "Zelda Dungeon Design Megathread" and let everything pile up there?

Basically, is it more beneficial for activity to have only a couple forums and have them full of "The XYZ Megathread" or do we have more forums that allow for a greater variety of highly specific threads?

I think this would have merit, if we had active megathreads Right now, we don't generally; the examples are hard to really follow when they don't exist.

If a megathread did spring up and was active enough, I think it'd be fine to encourage it to split into separate threads. And if enough of those threads got and stayed active, then it'd be fine to make a forum for it. But I don't really see a compelling reason to have more forums as opposed to less. Especially as right now, most forums do not have much in the way of active threads as it is; some on the first page can be up to 2, 3, even 4 years old (if not more).

I do not really know where the concept of it being "overkill" to make new threads for small things was. If anything, I would like people to make more of those, not less.
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Posted on 12-29-16 11:07:24 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Originally posted by FieryIce
I agree about thread descriptions being unnecessary clutter. But I do think we should get more forums. The way I see it, they might encourage new discussion in the form of new threads specifically relevant to the forum, and at worst, they fail and we move all the threads to a similar forum and delete. I see no harm!

Of course, the problem right now, I think, is that we have very generic forums, so almost anything I can think of would already fit in one of the more generic forums. I was thinking of the gaming forum as an example of this. There is nothing more specific than the Gaming forum, but then it also feels overkill to post a very specific thread like asking a question about Pokemon Sun/Moon or asking for a trade because there is already a Pokemon Sun/Moon thread. But a post in a big thread like that would be more easily missed. Another example, also in gaming, it feels kinda overkill to make a thread to discuss one aspect of one Zelda game (what are your thoughts on the water temple of OOT?) in such a generic forum, but there's also not a Zelda Discussion thread -- do we create a "Zelda Dungeon Design Megathread" and let everything pile up there?

Basically, is it more beneficial for activity to have only a couple forums and have them full of "The XYZ Megathread" or do we have more forums that allow for a greater variety of highly specific threads?

I think this would have merit, if we had active megathreads Right now, we don't generally; the examples are hard to really follow when they don't exist.

If a megathread did spring up and was active enough, I think it'd be fine to encourage it to split into separate threads. And if enough of those threads got and stayed active, then it'd be fine to make a forum for it. But I don't really see a compelling reason to have more forums as opposed to less. Especially as right now, most forums do not have much in the way of active threads as it is; some on the first page can be up to 2, 3, even 4 years old (if not more).

I do not really know where the concept of it being "overkill" to make new threads for small things was. If anything, I would like people to make more of those, not less.


Now, this might just be me being weird, as I know I have quite a few quirks when it comes to posting on forums, but I do have this feeling that somehow it's "wrong" to post something specific like I mentioned in a general forum like Gaming. I'm not saying it's because of any rule anyone has written, the feeling simply comes from what's on the forum itself. Most of the threads are "[Insert Game Here] Discussion" threads. It gives off the impression (and this might just be me being quirky) that I can only post about games that already have a generic discussion thread, or if I want to talk about one that doesn't then I need to create a generic discussion thread for it.

And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, either. Just saying that it might be worth considering whether a situation like this results in less activity or not.

We could do an experiment. Maybe we can hold some kind of poll among the community to see what kind of really specific topic (for which we have a generic forum like Entertainment or Gaming) has a lot of interest among the active users, and we create a forum for that. We see whether the forum works out and grows with discussion that we hadn't seen in the generic equivalent, and if it does, whether it's something we could replicate with more specific forums that interest the community. It might be fun
Xkeeper






Posted on 12-29-16 11:14:24 PM Link | Quote
I think my counterpoint is that you aren't really going to have a lot of topics, enough to fuel a forum. (I also suspect that you are around much larger forums than here, where megathreads are a lot more common.)

Take Pokemon, for example. Okay, so there's a forum about that. Some thread ideas:

- The latest games.
- Probably one for trading or battling?
- Maybe one for discussing which Pokemon is your favorite.
- Maaaaybe another one for griping? I don't know. At this point it is getting hard to come up with more ideas.


I am basing most of my knowledge off of both this forum (for a small, inactive place), forums like Sega's official boards (which have a subforum for most of their various series, almost all of which are dead), Something Awful's Games forum (very active, lots of active "megathreads") and SA's Blizzard games forum -- which is the closest analogue to this idea, and still has only a handful of threads per game. (It's also much quieter, which considering the far larger user base says something.)

I just do not think it's practical to have a very specific subforum any more, especially about just a single series of games.
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Posted on 12-29-16 11:17:54 PM Link | Quote
more forums will further fragment the few threads we get even further

it's like having too many playlists in rocket league; it will fragment the playerbase and you get even fewer matches in the playlist of your choice, rather than a more general catch-all selection
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Posted on 12-30-16 12:14:03 AM Link | Quote
Yeah, I think you'd do better by collapsing the remaining threads into a much smaller number of subforums, the specific topics category, especially. The amount of activity can realistically only support like 4-5 subforums at most.

So like:

- Games, Media, Internetz, Tech, Whatever
- Creative Stuff
- TCRF and Site Stuff
- General other thingies.

Xkeeper






Posted on 12-30-16 12:33:14 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xenesis
Yeah, I think you'd do better by collapsing the remaining threads into a much smaller number of subforums, the specific topics category, especially. The amount of activity can realistically only support like 4-5 subforums at most.

So like:

- Games, Media, Internetz, Tech, Whatever
- Creative Stuff
- TCRF and Site Stuff
- General other thingies.



This has actually been what I was thinking for a long time, though I would keep games separate still if only because I am a very stubborn person.

Technically, I could probably merge General and Computers, ROM Hacking and Projects/Creations (they are not terribly dissimilar, all things considering). News and General could also be merged effectively.

The only reason I have not done it is because combining forums isn't trivial and I'd like to retain the information of what subforum something belonged to. (This sort of thing could be done with thread "tags" like Kafuka does it, but that would be a little cluttered and I don't think it would be very useful.)

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Posted on 12-30-16 12:37:10 AM Link | Quote
Well, you could always keep the "tags" invisible as standard. I guess it depends on whether you'd want that meta information visible or not. But it doesn't sound like the forum is particularly nice for subforum merges.
Xkeeper






Posted on 12-30-16 12:41:57 AM Link | Quote
Oh, one other reason I have not done it: It is hard (emotionally). It is admitting that something is dead and gone. The same thing happened with other forums like the old "Story Forum"; when I finally removed it was as if a piece of the forum had died. (I know that it isn't the case, but it's hard to shake sentimental value.)


As for an updated forum list:

- General. News, Tech, Entertainment stuff; what you're reading, watching, talking about
- Off-topic, aka Craziness. Basically, almost-anything-goes.
- Projects and Creations.
- Gaming. Games you're playing, stuff you'ree interested in, or stuff coming out.
- TCRF / Game Research and Modding.
- Meta. Hi!
-------
- Junk forums like old SM64/NSMB/etc ...

Order subject to change. I can't decide on a nice order that I like, but this is close.


Originally posted by Xenesis
Well, you could always keep the "tags" invisible as standard. I guess it depends on whether you'd want that meta information visible or not. But it doesn't sound like the forum is particularly nice for subforum merges.


The forum thread and reply counts (needed for proper paging) need to be updated manually. All the threads need to be moved, too. It's just a matter of writing the right queries — and not breaking it.

I think the meta-data isn't very important, honestly. It is just sentimental-value talking. In reality, nobody is going to care if a thread was originally posted in News, Computing, or General, they just (hopefully) want to post in it.

The more I think about it, the less useful tags would be, though.
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Posted on 12-30-16 03:51:00 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by FieryIce

Now, this might just be me being weird, as I know I have quite a few quirks when it comes to posting on forums, but I do have this feeling that somehow it's "wrong" to post something specific like I mentioned in a general forum like Gaming. I'm not saying it's because of any rule anyone has written, the feeling simply comes from what's on the forum itself. Most of the threads are "[Insert Game Here] Discussion" threads. It gives off the impression (and this might just be me being quirky) that I can only post about games that already have a generic discussion thread, or if I want to talk about one that doesn't then I need to create a generic discussion thread for it.

And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, either. Just saying that it might be worth considering whether a situation like this results in less activity or not.

We could do an experiment. Maybe we can hold some kind of poll among the community to see what kind of really specific topic (for which we have a generic forum like Entertainment or Gaming) has a lot of interest among the active users, and we create a forum for that. We see whether the forum works out and grows with discussion that we hadn't seen in the generic equivalent, and if it does, whether it's something we could replicate with more specific forums that interest the community. It might be fun



I agree
I feel my project threads about hacking/researching game-making tools don't fit in game hacking.
And stuff to do with ripping, is an iffy one, for while VERY relevant to the overall concept of 'hacking' ... game hacking USUALLY refers to the code (cuz, stereotypes/nitpicking).
In fact, I'm an expert at finding a category that considering what's ACTUALLY available for me, doesn't really 'fit' in anything. I almost ALWAYS have this issue with my artwork on Deviantart. Hundreds of categories, and none EXACTLY fits what I have made.

However, be careful HOW specific you go.
vg-resource's forum structure is an example (no offense to them, but...)
there are four sections for actual RIPPING, after the four resource sub-sites they provide:
spriters-resource
models-resource
textures-resource
sounds.resource
now, these all have sub forums
-ripping help
-project organization
-feedback/showreel

Here's the problem, though:
scenario A : models /textures / sprites are very intertwined as-is. so, someone who is going after ALL graphics in the game has quite the dilemma, already.
scenario B : some people (myself included) want to rip/dump something BESIDES models, like text/maps(the data part, these massive screenshots really annoy me when looking for TILES)/configs/animation stuff (proper spritesheets aren't as common these days, texture atlases and 2d skeletal animation are becoming pretty popular, also)/etc...

There's also this guy, where it's rather the name of the thread should change to suit the use:
game development > This thread has been accepted as the general dump-heap for programming projects of all kinds

In the case of A, the question is:
"do I pollute the resource threads by creating a thread in each category for the assets I'm ripping?"
OR
"do I post something that might be related to textures and/or sprites and/or sounds to models-resource?"
In the case of B, it's
"CRAP, WHERE THE HELL DO I POST THIS, PERIOD?"
gamedev: re-name programming/hacking

Now, on that same note, there's the opposite problem of over-generalization that creates ambiguities. let's take game sorting into account here

genres/types:
FPS
RPG
OPEN WORLD
PLATFORMER
PUZZLE
SIM
etc...

graphics:
3D
2D
2.5D

platform:
NES
SNES
N64
GAMECUBE
PC
XBOX
PLAYSTATION
MOBILE
etc...

series and or fairly obvious bootleg of series:
LOZ
Epic Battle Fantasy
Pokemon
Diablo
GTA

developers:
Nintendo
Microsoft
EA
Blizzard


game locations:
let's not...

Let's pretend someone doesn't know the name of the game in all cases (and this happens even with something that's EXTREMELY popular at the time)

Candy Crush Saga:
genre: puzzle (extremely generic! this is why we have sub-genres)
platform: mobile
developer: KING
series: let's just say saga

ocarina of time:
genre: ARPG
other modifiers: open world (apparently... the term is ambiguous)
series: LOZ
Developer: Nintendo
platform: n64, gamecube
locations: deku tree, gannon's castle, lost woods
HOLD ON...
OoT 2D
developer: fan-made, various
platform: PC
side notes: tried (and failed) many times, so this one in itself... the current results would be the one using aLTTP style, what if you want an older attempt?
OoT 3D
developer: nintendo
platform: 3DS

Epic Battle Fantasy 5:
developer: Matt Roszak/Kupogames
status: unreleased/indev
platform: presumably PC-WEB-FLASH, but I don't think it's yet set in stone
series: Epic Battle Fantasy
genre: [turn-based] RPG
modifiers: open world (as far as RPGs with rigid main quests go...) , has overworld

Alright, so here's where all these various terms become ambiguous.

legend of zelda ocarina of time:
i played it once as a kid, and was then banned from playing my brother-in-law's games due to a dumb-ass miss-understanding at school. (ironically, was allowed to watch)
at the time, only knew it as "legend of zelda" , and that my brother-in-law (actually, at the time just my sister's boyfriend) played it on the gamecube. things I remember most: sucking at playing, the deku tree

More 'recently' was doing LOZ research and learn:
platform: Nintendo 64! (CRAPPY COMPUTERS CAN EMULATE THIS!)
size: 32 MB (small download)
title: Ocarina of Time
realizations: just how MUCH of this I had seen my brother-in-law play when I was younger, and not realize IT WAS ALL THE SAME GAME. just how easy it is to clear that first dungeon, my problem was not understanding controls well. honestly, i definitely should've been a legend of zelda fan all along.
my keywords: '[inside the] deku tree'
any other search terms, I most likely wouldn't have found it.

Candy Crush Saga: who cares? but it'd be lost among the mess of puzzle and mobile games if it weren't so overrated/popular. One might find it if they recalled the developer, King... (IDK how many games they have, though...again I just don't care)

Epic Battle Fantasy 2 (you thought I was going to talk about 5, huh?):
I played this at some point after discovering Newgrounds
I sucked at it and ragequit, but did want to re-start at some point.
However, less tech-savvy/aware me didn't save links or remember name, nor really kept track of developers. all that stuck in my brain, standing the ultimate test of time "fantasy" (yeah, that narrows it down, huh?)
Sometime later, found EBF3 on Arcade Pre-hacks and THEN I remembered what game I had played and utterly FAILED at It was the art that gave it away, though. I now follow Matt Roszak on Deviantart! I even got two of my friends at school so damn addicted to it their talking about strategies and accomplishments for it was kind of annoying to me... lol But, hey, we all get that way about our favorite things...

Now, that MASSIVE textwall now out of the way, even very specific things can become too generic.
If someone is looking for a certain game, it might take several pieces of information, or a very specific piece of information unique to that exact game, to re-discover it.

Sorry for my lifestory, but I really believed that was the best way to explain this, as someone who is constantly challenged by the very ral problems of "how do i sort this shit?" "how do i find this shit i thought was cool?" "in what ways does this shit fall into a certain category?" , I know a thing or two about optimal ways to organize/categorize stuff, because I've dealt with the nightmare of what happens when you have too much or too little organization/labeling.

Now, Xkeeper, if you're talking about tags as in
#RPG,#ZELDA,#NINTENDO,etc...
I'd strongly advise having this kind of system, combined with a search bar.
The problem with tagging systems, though, is similar to what breaks other categories, anything from too few to too many.

One MAJOR gripe I have about this place is it's not streamlined for actually FINDING something if it's buried behind 1000 other things in the same general category.

When designing or setting-up a forum/wiki (or, ok, ANYTHING), you need to carefully craft your overall layout/organization according to a combination of general-purpose and nitpicky-specific categories, and then add additional meta-data and a search function to most optimally allow someone to actually FIND what they're seeking. You might not have a lot of activity, but you have a cumulative build-up of THOUSANDS of threads, and no one really likes manually sifting through a forum to see if something tickles their fancy. I help moderate a wiki that's not very much dead/quiet. The problem isn't just that there's an awful organization strategy for NEW content, but our OLD content, some of which is significant, has been completely BURIED by having pages in bad categories, and information on bad pages, and THOUSANDS of completely not-sorted threads/photos. There are actually things that try as we might, WE CAN'T FIND... (even WITH a search function)

That's my...
screw it...
$2.00
(lol)

If you'd like a more detailed and optimized to this site (well, in my opinion, as it's based on my unique experiences) , I'd love to shed some light on that.
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