Dickson
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Two discoveries - the game's root folder is oddly called "Suzy" and the executable is "Proteus.exe"
That's all I got. Really curious if someone can find some interesting things, like removed games or features. |
metalman
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https://www.reddit.com/r/Megaman/comments/3igzxk/mega_man_legacy_collection_is_a_fancy_emulator/
I wonder if this is true... (Same with the PS1 version of Chrono Trigger?)
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2Tie
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something to do to test that would be to null out the memory/most of the memory containing the mentioned MM2 rom and see if the game would still play? or just non-audio/visual sections?
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Xkeeper
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"data.pie" is actually a .zip file with AES encryption. The password is
"P091uWEdwe4lI6StDNMNlkodPGvJ38bL3HW6t3BCMYdFi83FXKu7k0NsHP8caDKS".
The internal name for the game is "Bakesale".
scripts/config.lua
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DebugSettings.show_pattern_table = false
DebugSettings.infinite_health = false
DebugSettings.infinite_lives = false
DebugSettings.debug_game_text = true
DebugSettings.debug_challenge_text = false
DebugSettings.autosave = false
DebugSettings.left_stick_unlock_weapons = false
DebugSettings.debug_weapons = false
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Setting these all to true and recompressing doesn't seem to have any obvious effects. Sad.
The challenges are all savestates, with probably some extra unknown code on how those work. Still looking into things with Ninji/CyberKitsune's help. |
einstein95
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| Roms are basically identical to the standard roms (as far as I have checked), but with the Nintendo copyright text removed in the most hacky way possible: Replacing it with spaces. The roms themselves are headerless and in the rdata portion of the exe. NSFs seem identical (as to be expected), and are also headerless. No idea why. |
Xkeeper
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Probably to make their iNES-ness a little less obvious.
The ROMs seem to be split in reverse, too, with CHR coming before PRG. Ordinarily it's the opposite. |
Krvavi Abadas
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Originally posted by metalman
https://www.reddit.com/r/Megaman/comments/3igzxk/mega_man_legacy_collection_is_a_fancy_emulator/
I wonder if this is true... (Same with the PS1 version of Chrono Trigger?)
It is, but not in the way you think.
In terms of how the game works internally. All of the graphics, Music, and stage layouts are directly loaded from the headerless roms. While the actual game code is directly ported into the Eclipse Format, which that new "Elcipse Version" code is then run on the PC/PS4/Xbox One/3DS versions of the Eclipse Engine. This means that basically, all ROM hacks that only modify those specific parts (Like the one shown in the Webm) will actually load in-game. While hacks that actually directly modify the games ASM code don't work.
Also, the challenges use completely custom code that's layered directly on top of the original ported code for stuff like the timer and the portals that teleport Mega Man to a different location (or a different game entirely in some of the challenges.)
The best part? This stuff was actually known before release. The former came from this USgamer interview
Originally posted by "Frank Cifaldi"
We set up our Eclipse Engine, and we set up hardware simulation modules, and we convert using source elements provided by the publisher, — their original game to our format.
While it's bit coy on the subject, it's pretty obvious what "using source elements" is referring to. Now that we have a proper analysis of how the game works. As for where the info about how the challenges work came from. It's from this video interview.
Originally posted by "Frank Cifaldi"
The challenge mode? We did not alter anything, that's all things that we're running on top of the original games
Originally posted by "Frank Cifaldi"
So when you start here, that's a save point that i've created, so there's no modification of code necessary for that. Those portals? Those were very difficult to implement but we got them working. We're drawing that portal on top of the game but also within the game's space so it's the same resolution and everything, and what we're doing is we can track where Mega Man's head is in the game, and we kinda know like when his head touches that portal. So like when you touch a portal it takes you to the next segment.
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like the eclipse engine version is a perfect recreation like it's being promoted as. Supposedly, there's some minor audio issues. But it's definitely not on the same level as the fake "DIGITAL ECLIPSE IS LYING! THEY'RE JUST USING AN EMULATOR!" issue folks are getting mad about.
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Xkeeper
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"Minor audio issues" is to be expected, since the source audio is rendered at like 1Mhz+ and you're usually only going to get 44khz out of most systems.
I wonder what emulator they used as a basis for their work. |
Eon
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Interesting. In a way I've played devil's advocate, by treating this collection under the assumption it was ported from source. The jury is still out on that one. They didn't say whether they had access to the actual original code, or whether it's been lost.
Krvavi Abadas' description makes me think of Doom source ports, in how the engine and audiovisual assets were treated separately. |
einstein95
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Originally posted by Xkeeper
Probably to make their iNES-ness a little less obvious.
The ROMs seem to be split in reverse, too, with CHR coming before PRG. Ordinarily it's the opposite.
Didn't notice that with MM2 and 1. |
Xkeeper
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MM3 and 4 definitely are.
In a way I've played devil's advocate, by treating this collection under the assumption it was ported from source.
Source wouldn't do you a whole lot of good for something like the NES, because the way it works is entirely different from any modern arch. You'd have to still include mechanisms for how the PPU works, how interrupts work, etc. Even things like timing.
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Foxhack
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| Posted on 08-29-15 05:17:53 PM (last edited by Foxhack at 08-29-15 05:18:42 PM) |
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Has Digital Eclipse ever used other emulators as a base for their uh, work? As far as I knew they did all their things in-house.
The whole "Savestates" thing reminds me a lot of Terminal Reality's utterly craptacular The King of Fighters: The Orochi Saga "ports" on the PS2 and its challenge mode. They basically loaded a savestate and checked for specific things to happen to mark the challenge as done once you did it.
Now I'm starting to wonder if there's any staff overlap between Terminal Reality and this new company... since TR went out of business a few years ago. |
Aceearly1993
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Played ripped versions and get through MM3. I don't think there are any difference (actually, this version is MORE laggier than the versions on NES/FC emulators on some PCs in specific areas, like the bee hive area at the very start of Hard Man stage; when the bee throw its hive to the ground, the hive breaks, small bees burst out and create TONS of lag) But other structures like Yellow Devil fight seems to have no problem though. And it seems to be no additiolal bonus when a game was beaten (aside from the trophy/achievement stuff in console/steam that some people don't care about them at all)
Suzy is an enemy form Mega Man 1 ,dubbed "Octopus Battery" overseas
Also, is there any evidence that would reveal future plan, like probably (I don't think it's very possible though) DLCs? |
ICEknight
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Originally posted by Aceearly1993
Played ripped versions and get through MM3. I don't think there are any difference (actually, this version is MORE laggier than the versions on NES/FC emulators on some PCs in specific areas, like the bee hive area at the very start of Hard Man stage; when the bee throw its hive to the ground, the hive breaks, small bees burst out and create TONS of lag)
"Played ripped versions"? You mean you're playing that ROM that somebody mentioned is identical except for the Nintendo copyright being replaced by spaces? |
Aceearly1993
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Originally posted by ICEknight
"Played ripped versions"? You mean you're playing that ROM that somebody mentioned is identical except for the Nintendo copyright being replaced by spaces?
No, it labled "ripped" but I checked, it's the PC version of the game that got rid of all steam content
I have no direct evidence, but I think the Mega Man 3 part was 100% identical to the emulated version on NES/FC emulator, since the "Call Rush Jet from Shadow Blade" trick was in place (I'm not sure if 2P tricks form the original still work there because the game only supports XBOX360 controller (beside keyboard control) in my "ripped" PC version)
The file size of the game data is about 380+m~400+m, at first I think the PS remix version of music would be in place since I watched some videos that contain Mega Man 3 title music in PS1 navi mode, but I feel like that I was being cheated because only main menu of the game has remixed music from PS1 version navi mode, and the lack of content after beating a game. |
Foxhack
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| Posted on 09-09-15 08:45:24 PM (last edited by Foxhack at 09-09-15 08:46:11 PM) |
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Oh, so it's a cracked, hacked version.
"Ripped", in those terms, usually means that they remove files or replace them with lower quality ones just to save space. |
Xeo
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I've never liked Mega Man 7-8 much, but they're still fine. It's been so long since I've played them though I'm actually excited to give them another run.
I still think Mega Man & Bass should have been on this set, which I think outclasses both 7-8 for that era.
9-10 are awesome and I still haven't played those much, so it'll also be fun giving them another run! |
