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04-23-18 04:43:56 AM

Jul - Gaming - Unpopular Gaming Opinions New poll - New thread - New reply
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Rambly

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Posted on 02-15-18 03:15:32 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Spoiler:
At this point, Asriel has ceased to exist.


Spoiler:
i'll grant that my explanation of the events was kind of shallow. i was working off of several-year-old memories, which isn't exactly the best way to do serious plot analysis

that line's... huh. okay, actually, that one little line REALLY changed my interpretation of the events of the game... i sort of thought that Flowey and Asriel were different forms of the same being, and not that Flowey was sort of... its own creature that held the remnants of Asriel inside of it, which i think is probably a more correct way of thinking about it? or that's what the Wikia seems to hint at... either way, there's a lot more that fits together in my head that didn't before.


Originally posted by Xkeeper
Spoiler:
I will say there's a bit of a plot hole in that Flowey seems to be held together quite well, while other recipients of Determinationā„¢ ended up... melty.


Spoiler:
that's less of an issue when you remember that monsters are explained in-game to have pretty flimsy physical forms, and that those melty recipients of determination were monsters. by contrast, flowey is a flower, and i'm assuming flowers have a strongly defined physical form and that they follow the same rules of physicality as humans.

...actually, i'm legitimately surprised at how well Undertale's plot fits together even upon further scrutiny. huh.



You should really at least watch the story sequences of that part, especially the end area. It does provide a lot of explanation.

yeah, that's... probably true; i kinda didn't think it had a lot of story details i was missing, but evidently i was wrong if i've missed as much as i did

honestly, at this point, i really ought to just replay the whole game. it's been almost three years and just from reading around i'm realizing there are a LOT of plot & character details that have faded from my memory or that i didn't pick up on originally.
Xkeeper

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Posted on 02-15-18 03:23:12 PM Link | Quote
Glad I could help you understand some more of it; it's a very deep game. (Even what I know is mostly just from having read the stuff that points out the different threads tying it all together.)

I don't think I could really replay it myself; like Journey, it's one of those things you can't really replicate.
Reverend Crush
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Posted on 02-15-18 04:21:54 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lunaria
I feel the comparison Terraria gets to Minecraft is very unfair...


I agree, I just used the term "knock-off" for what people gave Terraria at face value. Which reminds me, I need to actually make some real progress in Starbound.


Pokemon games have been getting worse not better over the years.


I haven't seriously played a Pokemon game since the original generation (I bought Blue in high school since everyone else bought Red), and from what little I've played of Gold, it seemed like more of the same. I don't know if it was because I had been playing harder JRPGs years prior, but I never got sweep into the hype. Every time I see a new mainline release, I never see anything that really makes me want to invest money and time into trying it out. I'm not really holding my breath to see this next Switch game, unless they do something that's basically a reboot in terms of game mechanics.

Random encounters worked fine in its time, and maybe some games can pull it off with a good excuse (not sure how.) But when friggin' Dragon Quest, a series that has always tried to keep from becoming radically different with each mainline entry, dropped that mechanic in DQ9 onward, that alone should have been a sign that it was time to change, especially for a series like Pokemon where these creatures are supposed to be all over the place in its lore. That just... baffles me.
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Posted on 02-15-18 04:23:12 PM Link | Quote
Terraria is more akin to "Minecraft clone, but 2D", in the same sense that everything used to be a Doom clone.

Starbound is a Terraria knockoff, though, and a bad one at that; mostly due to Tiy's constant meddling with the game...
eifie
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Posted on 02-15-18 04:31:21 PM Link | Quote
less of an opinion and more just the way i am about all media, but i dont like violence, horror, love triangles (read as: heteronormative love tropes), or competitive gaming at alllll. i feel bad cause i know i miss out on a tonne of cool stuff, but i cant get past these things. like i can deal with a little of each, but games where you just kill people or compete with others, or games that focus on making choices between two love interests, things like that, ugh i just dont like them.
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Posted on 02-15-18 04:35:23 PM (last edited by Reverend Crush at 02-15-18 04:36:42 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Starbound is a Terraria knockoff, though, and a bad one at that


I actually thought they were by the same developer. I haven't dug into it too deeply, honestly, I got it during a Steam Sale. Guess this explains why I haven't heard too many people making a huge fuss over it...
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Posted on 02-15-18 04:35:34 PM Link | Quote
Hey, someone else who doesn't like the over-focus on ~competitive games~! I'm glad to see that.
Xkeeper

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Posted on 02-15-18 04:36:35 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Reverend Crush
I actually thought they were by the same developer. I haven't dug into it too deeply, honestly, I got it during a Steam Sale. Guess this explains why I haven't heard too many people making a huge fuss over it...

Nah, Tiy was iirc part of the Terraria team way back when, but then split off into his own company and decided to make Terraria In Spaceā„¢, and then decided to remove all of the things that made Terraria fun. So instead you get a grindy mess with a bunch of really samey bullshit.

But it has (bad) modding support, at least.
Shadic
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Posted on 02-15-18 05:02:38 PM Link | Quote
Here's one: FF6 is wildly overrated, didn't add much to the series, and is mechanically terrible. The story wildly bounces between melodramatic and mediocre comedy in a way that detracts from both. Also the clash between the art style with the PCs vs. enemies in battle is garish.

Chrono Trigger is a better game in every way. Better plot, story telling, mechanics, pacing, graphics, etc..

I'll get into my more controversial Zelda opinions later.
eifie
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Posted on 02-15-18 05:06:44 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Hey, someone else who doesn't like the over-focus on ~competitive games~! I'm glad to see that.

yea!! my favourite parts of games definitely include the socializing and other fun stuff, like collecting and trading :3
Lunaria

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Posted on 02-15-18 05:07:16 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Terraria is more akin to "Minecraft clone, but 2D", in the same sense that everything used to be a Doom clone.
I guess depends on what you count for that, because a lot of the early games called Doom clones were, um, kind of just that, not really inserting much of anything new at all.

Originally posted by Xkeeper
Starbound is a Terraria knockoff, though, and a bad one at that; mostly due to Tiy's constant meddling with the game...
I actually consider Starbound like, a title that better fits being called "Minecraft in 2D", because the main focus on both of those things lie in building stuff.

On one hand, I can kinda agree with that the game is a Terraria knockoff, because it's quite clear that they tried to have a bunch of things that the game is just shit at. On the other it makes more sense to look at the game as a sandbox building game, because there is a lot of shit to use for building and one of the main reason to go anywhere is to scan objects so you can 3D-Print them yourself. Most the games mechanics seems to go towards the building aspect of the game..., even if the game is kind of not marketed for that.

I have a lot of thoughts about Starbound, since I have messed around a bit in it after every major updated and it's kind of an interesting game to analyse. But I guess the short gist of it is that the developers don't seem to have any clue how to design the game they seemingly set out to make?
Kazinsal
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Posted on 02-15-18 05:12:44 PM Link | Quote
Starbound shows a lot of signs of being negatively affected by scope creep. Not to the extent of, say, Star Citizen, but there's enough that it hurts the game quite a bit. That and its original release being really quite crap.

Ooh, there's one.

Star Citizen is a fascinating failure of mismanaged funding, scope creep, and development process, and the only way it'll ever reach a quarter of what it's set out to do is if a studio with some semblance of patience and understanding of game development buys Cloud Imperium Games and fires Chris Roberts, the same way that Microsoft Game Studios saved Freelancer from development hell in the early 2000s after five years of being stuck in an eternal design stage and Chris Roberts almost running out of money.
Reverend Crush
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Posted on 02-15-18 05:47:47 PM (last edited by Reverend Crush at 02-15-18 05:48:59 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Shadic
Here's one: FF6 is wildly overrated... Chrono Trigger is a better game in every way.


Speaking as someone who has done everything there is to do in FF6 and then some, well no contest, Chrono is the better game, but I put Chrono above most games period.

FF6's story was okay for it's time, especially compared to FF5, but it had some glaring cracks, at least in the "FF3" translation. The whole scene with General Leo, Terra/Tina and Shadow on the boat comes to mind. I suppose this was supposed to be moving somehow, but it's followed up by Locke puking off the boat for... REASONS?

As far as the contrast of character sprites vs. monster graphics go, that had kind of been an issue since the first game, but it's more apparent in FF6. Part of the problem is Amano's art is hard to translate to a character sprite of that size. It never really bothered me, but I had lower standards.

My biggest complaint is that it was way too simple to build an OP entourage, to the point where it most of the endgame was way too easy. FF5 had the right idea by limiting what a character could use from his/her learned job skillset, while FF6 was just like "Okay, everyone can use all magic spells with little effort plus here's a character that can use almost anyone's job abilities plus mimic that Ultima spell you've been spamming at little (if barely) MP cost!"

I'm pretty sure FF6 falls somewhere in my Top 100, but it's not a game I really want to play again... which is not something I'd say about FF4 or FF5. I've just... seen it all, way too easily, too many times.
Xkeeper

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Posted on 02-15-18 06:35:44 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lunaria
I have a lot of thoughts about Starbound, since I have messed around a bit in it after every major updated and it's kind of an interesting game to analyse. But I guess the short gist of it is that the developers don't seem to have any clue how to design the game they seemingly set out to make?


Sounds like a good concept for a thread

Starbound didn't really suffer scope creep as much as it suffered from extremely bad executive meddling. The Something Awful thread about it had frequent appearances from an ex-Chucklefish artist that described how things in there went, and it mostly went that Tiy effectively dictated what "fun" was supposed to be, by removing a bunch of really cool things and replacing them with... grinding. The betas had a lot of interesting stuff like double-grappling hooks with actual physics, mechs, more unique and varied enemies (that didn't have contact damage), interesting guns; all of that was stripped out.
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Posted on 02-15-18 06:39:20 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by eifie
less of an opinion and more just the way i am about all media, but i dont like violence, horror, love triangles (read as: heteronormative love tropes), or competitive gaming at alllll. i feel bad cause i know i miss out on a tonne of cool stuff, but i cant get past these things. like i can deal with a little of each, but games where you just kill people or compete with others, or games that focus on making choices between two love interests, things like that, ugh i just dont like them.


It could be worse - I really like the types of games that are competitive games, but I hate being competitive because I am really not that person.

It causes a lot of frustration at times hahah.
Rambly

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Posted on 02-15-18 07:31:52 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Hey, someone else who doesn't like the over-focus on ~competitive games~! I'm glad to see that.

i enjoyed speedrunning for a time because for a while i enjoyed, like, digging deeper into games' mechanics and finding fun & cool things, glitches and mechanical quirks... in retrospect though there's no reason all of that needed to be centered around competition; TCRF actually accomplishes those goals without a lot of competition, but maybe an even better example is TASing, which literally accomplishes the same things as speedrunning without (as much) competition

but competitive gaming, competition for competition's sake, is boring and frequently toxic.

boring, because it's reductive -- instead of focusing on the plurality of different discoveries and the new, exciting things you can find in a game, or instead of focusing on all of the different possibilities a game has, you're negating fun discoveries because they're "suboptimal". it becomes more about an arbitrary number, score or time, w/e, than playing the game after a point

toxic, because it frequently discourages or shames people for wanting to play around or have fun. it encourages a type of socialization that's less focused on just interaction between two people, and two people getting to know each other, and more about constantly showing off and feeling better than others. it fosters a type of elitism that i hate in games, one that goes beyond being just "trash talky" or whatever. i'm not even getting into the rampant sexism in competitive gaming communities cuz whoo i have a lot of words about that

anyway competitive games are very tiring and i hated how a lot of the more toxic elements of competitive gaming culture seeped into the mainstream for a bit (i.e. people that'd harass casual video game streamers telling them how bad they sucked at the game), i guess that's my hot take
Lunaria

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Posted on 02-15-18 07:47:38 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Rambly
toxic, because it frequently discourages or shames people for wanting to play around or have fun. it encourages a type of socialization that's less focused on just interaction between two people, and two people getting to know each other, and more about constantly showing off and feeling better than others. it fosters a type of elitism that i hate in games, one that goes beyond being just "trash talky" or whatever.
I feel that in some scenarios it also fosters a lot of inferiority feelings. Like, I kind of had a falling out with running alttp randomizer in the weekly thing. Because, even while everyone is being pretty nice (that was my experience anyway), it's just not fun to constantly get freaking last. It dosen't really matter that I get told that you should just focus on comparing your own times and improvements, it dosen't change the fact that I'm put in a race that, fairly often, include the best of the best.

Like, if you're just starting out a sport you're not like, gonna be thrown in the world championships and compete against the best of the best, that would be soul crushing. Like, of course you always abstractly know that some people are better than you, like, WAY better than you. But that does not make it fun to be in direct competition with them, regardless of if it's just "for fun". Especially when you have to sit and see them complain (some times in jest, some times not) about how bad they performed, or like, have them drop out because they think they didn't do well. Despite the fact that they would still finish way before you. bleh. It's not like there is a good solution, anyone should be allowed to concede for any reason, but I know that it mentally just fucking hurts a crap ton to take part in that shit. After the recent time I decided to just never take part in any alttp randomizer race ever again, I'll just stick to playing the randomizer casually with my friend and leave it at that.


I actually don't mind competitive games in general, but really, you need to play with and against people who are around your skill level, otherwise it will not be fun at all.
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Posted on 02-15-18 07:53:47 PM (last edited by hydra-calm at 02-15-18 08:00:39 PM) Link | Quote
The competitive aspect of speedrunning never appealed to me -- I'm glad it does to some people, but for me it's primarily a glitch/tech/route showcase. I love watching routes change and games break in interesting ways, and I think I'm more suited to that side. I don't mind getting last, but I strongly dislike how fragile your contributions feel when you're primarily a runner. I like having a concrete object for glitch hunting, but sometimes people shoot themselves in the foot by throwing out something that isn't immediately applicable, but ends up game-breaking with further development. It's hard to avoid subconsciously getting in that mindset, even if people aren't berating you with "how is this useful" every time you find something...

And yeah, large communities especially can get pretty nasty, maybe partially since all the attention they attract invites maladaptive behavior to keep a decent SNR...

This is probably mostly a tangent though.
Lunaria

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Posted on 02-15-18 08:00:40 PM Link | Quote
I kinda stopped caring about trying to avoid derailing threads. Conversation about X topic will eventually lead to another one, that's just how it goes when you have a conversation. In fact, I think the desire to want to "stay on-topic" is one of the flaws with old school message boards. Because it can often devolve into everyone saying their piece about what the defined topic is, without actually having a conversation with anyone. :p
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Posted on 02-15-18 08:06:48 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by hydra-calm
The competitive aspect of speedrunning never appealed to me -- I'm glad it does to some people, but for me it's primarily a glitch/tech/route showcase. I love watching routes change and games break in interesting ways, and I think I'm more suited to that side. I don't mind getting last, but I strongly dislike how fragile your contributions feel when you're primarily a runner. I like having a concrete object for glitch hunting, but sometimes people shoot themselves in the foot by throwing out something that isn't immediately applicable, but ends up game-breaking with further development. It's hard to avoid subconsciously getting in that mindset, even if people aren't berating you with "how is this useful" every time you find something...

And yeah, large communities especially can get pretty nasty, maybe partially since all the attention they attract invites maladaptive behavior to keep a decent SNR...

This is probably mostly a tangent though.



This is why I prefer randomizers over speed runs these days: people berate you if you make a mistake or accidentally die during the run. It's also nice to see the same game that requires different routes every time it's randomized.
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