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09-20-17 02:57:02 AM

Jul - Gaming - Unpopular Gaming Opinions New poll - New thread - New reply
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devin

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Posted on 10-19-15 09:26:28 PM (last edited by devin at 10-19-15 09:42:29 PM) Link | Quote
Undertale has literally nothing to do with Homestuck except for a single song that you aren't going to hear the first n times you play the game anyway. It definitely has much more in common with Mother 2 and 3.

(popular gaming opinion: Undertale is extremely good)
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Posted on 10-19-15 09:39:48 PM Link | Quote
This brings up a good question: when will it be okay to openly talk about the game? This seems to be the only game in recent memory where it's absolutely verboten to post anything beyond the first area (not even music!) for fear of massive backlash from people that are probably never going to play the game at this rate.

If you want to play Undertale then PLAY UNDERTALE so you can nerd out with the rest of us.
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Posted on 10-19-15 10:26:26 PM Link | Quote
That brings me to my next thing.

Spoiler warnings and not having plots spoiled is supremely overrated. And I live in a place that by virtue of geography and screwed release schedules am bitten by them more than most.

Peardian

  
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Posted on 10-19-15 10:28:00 PM Link | Quote
If you go anywhere near the Undertale tag on tumblr, it's pretty much a giant wall of spoilers. And Mettaton.


@devin: and technically, that song isn't even originally from Homestuck, it's something Toby Fox made for something else he did beforehand...

Spoiler:
a spooky EarthBound rom hack.



As for the "don't talk about spoilers" thing, I think part of it is because of the wishes of the developer. At the beginning of GameGrumps/Steam Train's playthrough of it, they outright state that Toby asked them to encourage people to play the game for themselves before watching the let's play.


Considering the main mechanics of the game and the plot twists it has and how it plays with expectations and such, I can see why.
devin

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Posted on 10-20-15 01:35:17 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Peardian
@devin: and technically, that song isn't even originally from Homestuck, it's something Toby Fox made for something else he did beforehand...

Spoiler:
a spooky EarthBound rom hack.


Oh I know, I only mentioned Homestuck specifically since it was mentioned beforehand w/r/t Undertale so.

(unpopular Toby Fox opinion: I think the halloween hack actually kind of sucks)
Kaito Sinclaire
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Posted on 10-20-15 01:51:34 AM (last edited by Inuyasha at 10-20-15 01:51:43 AM) Link | Quote
Undertale isn't a good game.

It's a good novel.

It's not a good game.



Don't fucking have your story interfere with game mechanics.
Xkeeper






Posted on 10-20-15 02:31:33 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Inuyasha
Undertale isn't a good game.

It's a good novel.

It's not a good game.



Don't fucking have your story interfere with game mechanics.



Xkeeper






Posted on 10-20-15 02:40:33 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Inuyasha
Don't fucking have your story interfere with game mechanics.

I am genuinely curious about this, though. To what extent do you resent this?

Is this too much? (It takes a minute or so.)

That is a pretty clear interference of "game mechanics", because the story specifically calls for your machine to be tampered with and less effective than it otherwise would be.


I do not really understand it.
Kaito Sinclaire
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Posted on 10-20-15 03:12:54 AM Link | Quote
For the purposes of adding extra challenge I don't really care. For the purposes of trying to permanently tell the player they're terrible for playing the "wrong" way, and intentionally trying to make the game less fun if you do play that way, or guilt tripping the player if they want to play your game again, I mind much more.

So, get this -- I don't feel much sympathy for pixels on a computer screen, except in very rare circumstances. Story is, if anything, a bonus. It's something I occasionally look at, and a truly good story does improve the game a bit, but it's much, much more minor to me than how the game actually plays. I can enjoy a game with terrible, or no plot, and wonderful mechanics. I can't enjoy a game that has the best story in the world, and utter boring drivel for gameplay.

And what Undertale does makes me feel personally slighted for having different feelings from everybody else.



(On a side note, I still think Mother 3 is the best RPG ever released for being able to expertly weave both an amazing story and amazing gameplay into one game.)
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Posted on 10-20-15 12:49:40 PM Link | Quote
Oh boy, a ton of opinions to comment on, here we go.


Originally posted by DigitalBasic
From what I've seen, the fanbase is very careful not to spoil it for those that haven't played it. Guess it depends on where you look or hang out.



I did get a few spoilers, but that is only because I surfed tumblr without any sort of tumblr savior active, so the spoiler tags didn't help, that is of course my fault, and the fanbase has seemed very good at tagging things. Hell, even a lot of the youtube videos have a "Spoilers, go play the game first" thumbnail. The fanbase has gone above and beyond what they needed to make people stay clear of spoilers in my opinion.


Originally posted by Xenesis
Spoiler warnings and not having plots spoiled is supremely overrated. And I live in a place that by virtue of geography and screwed release schedules am bitten by them more than most.



I do kind of agree that being spoiled in most cases won't really make your enjoyment of media that much worse, in fact, sometimes it might even make it better.

But on the other hand, you can only really have the feeling of not knowing once, and whilst knowing might be more fun, it is something you can repeat, unlike being unspoiled.




Originally posted by Inuyasha
For the purposes of adding extra challenge I don't really care. For the purposes of trying to permanently tell the player they're terrible for playing the "wrong" way, and intentionally trying to make the game less fun if you do play that way, or guilt tripping the player if they want to play your game again, I mind much more.


Now, if you forgive me for being a bit blunt, is this not a bit hypocritical of you? Whilst it is true that there is one way to play the game that indeed, will test you patience and be less "fun" (fun of course being subjective, whilst I felt like the "non-fun" way to play payed off very well, I can definitely see how it is designed to not be fun), but most of those things toy talked about, such as playing "wrong" or guilt-tripping you, and all that other stuff, is a thing that is only done through the story, so if you don't care about the story, then it should follow that you don't care if the story is talking down to you or making you feel bad, correct?


It seems a little weird to mind an element so much that you don't find integral at all to the experience?



Fact of the matter is that Undertale is not a novel, and it wouldn't work as one. It is a game heavily emphasized on story, and it is damn good at what it does.

Calling something a bad game because it focuses on tying together gameplay and story, feels to me like calling a movie bad because it tries to time it's scenes to the soundtrack.
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Posted on 10-20-15 12:59:40 PM (last edited by Ailure at 10-20-15 01:12:07 PM) Link | Quote
Most games that have a pacifistic route tend to let it be more rewarding, or at least the moral route.

Deus Ex human revolution gives you more exp for merely knocking out people than killing them, it's way more rewarding longterm to save the girls in Bioshock than harvesting their slugs etc. I guess Undertale might just be the most blatant about it, but it's not really something new and is almost bit of a trope with games that have a more moral route possible. It usually dosen't bother me, even though in Deus Ex Human revolution have a huge arsenal of guns I never get to use due to that haha.

Spoilers only sometimes ruin a little, they admittedly don't show the whole picture, the famous Harry potter
Spoiler:
snape kills dumbledore
spoiler didn't really tell much about the why and the circumstances for example.

Honestly, the only thing I want to critique Undertale for is the 30 FPS limit, and I mainly only notice that while walking around ingame (all Mother games and most 2D RPG's are in full 60 fps). And even then I'm just being overly nitpicky to poke on that. It wouldn't make a diffrence for battle screens and such too anyway and it dosen't turn the game unplayable unlike what some dumb people seem to think.
Kaito Sinclaire
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Posted on 10-20-15 05:34:38 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Girlydragon
but most of those things toy talked about, such as playing "wrong" or guilt-tripping you, and all that other stuff, is a thing that is only done through the story, so if you don't care about the story, then it should follow that you don't care if the story is talking down to you or making you feel bad, correct?


I'm not an emotionless robot, and there's a difference between a "bad" story (that I can just ignore) and one that's giving a gigantic middle finger to the player for something they've done that's not even relevant to their current playthrough (which, again, makes me feel personally slighted). I said it was minor, not that I don't care at all.



I apologize for not being able to sum things up simply, I still have problems putting things into words sometimes.

But, you know, when 90% of the responses to what you're saying are vitriolic knee-jerk hatred regardless of how well you explained your points, there's not much encouragement to learn how to explain yourself rather than just hide.
Girlydragon
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Posted on 10-20-15 05:44:39 PM Link | Quote
I can definitely understand your opinion, the idea that the game remembers things from old playthroughs is a very weird and unusual thing.


Personally I enjoy it, but I can definitely see why others wouldn't.
RanAS
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Posted on 10-20-15 07:03:09 PM Link | Quote
Just so you guys know, I haven't played Undertale. I have heard many good things about it, some bad things about it too, and overall: I don't know.

Originally posted by Inuyasha
one that's giving a gigantic middle finger to the player for something they've done that's not even relevant to their current playthrough

I remember hearing about that. So, let me get this straight: when you create a new file it remembers some things that you've done on a previous file? If so, that's dumb. Very, very dumb.

I would understand it if it was something like New Game+ or if it was something that happened when you got a game over or started again from the same file, but it doesn't make much sense to continue it on to other files. That is breaking the fourth wall.

Originally posted by Inuyasha
But, you know, when 90% of the responses to what you're saying are vitriolic knee-jerk hatred regardless of how well you explained your points, there's not much encouragement to learn how to explain yourself rather than just hide.

I know that problem. It's cause is so complicated to understand, most people just call it "Welcome to the internet, the place where your opinions are invalid."

In most places, there's an argument going on. Sometimes, there's two sides: a majority and a minority. If that's the case, then something interesting happens: if someone says something that expresses the opinion of the minority towards the majority, then the majority feels the right to call that person a troll and completely ignore their argument. Of course that's not always the case, but it is something that happens commonly enough to be addressed. One good and recent example is the Jimmy Kimmel vs. YouTube Gaming thing.

This isn't really relevant, it's just that, if there's a good amount of people that like something, you'll start to see people who believe everyone not only will but should like it too, which is dumb, but it is true.
BMF54123

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Posted on 10-22-15 09:02:02 AM (last edited by BMF54123 at 10-22-15 09:04:47 AM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by RanAS
I would understand it if it was something like New Game+ or if it was something that happened when you got a game over or started again from the same file, but it doesn't make much sense to continue it on to other files. That is breaking the fourth wall.

Yes. That is a thing the game does. It is very much intentional, and just one of the many things that sets the game apart from everything else out there.

You guys are treating this like it's supposed to be Just Another RPG™ and it's not. It is TRYING to be different, to mess with your expectations.

If you really have a problem with this, delete all the save and configuration files and start over (and maybe wipe whatever's in the Steam cloud, if you're playing that version). Contrary to popular belief, the game doesn't modify your registry or drop secret cookies in your boot sector or anything.
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Posted on 10-22-15 12:08:41 PM (last edited by Dorito at 10-22-15 12:10:24 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by RanAS
I remember hearing about that. So, let me get this straight: when you create a new file it remembers some things that you've done on a previous file? If so, that's dumb. Very, very dumb.

I would understand it if it was something like New Game+ or if it was something that happened when you got a game over or started again from the same file, but it doesn't make much sense to continue it on to other files. That is breaking the fourth wall..

I don't think anyone who's cool with Undertale is explaining that part well, so lemme try and let me know what you think!

The only major changes happen in a kind of NG+ fashion! Otherwise, it's a few lines of dialogue (think of the diamond shaped narrative in a Telltale game like The Walking Dead, except the diamond is super tiny and reconverges in 3 seconds) that doesn't affect anything beyond that. You have to REALLY go out of your way to get that NG+ thing, and at that point, you've already beaten the game and got a lot out of it.

In the end, it's a mostly RPG that's a love letter to SNES JRPGS with some subtle commentary on video games.

Edit: in the end, it's exactly what you said in your last paragraph
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Posted on 10-23-15 02:43:43 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Dorito
The only major changes happen in a kind of NG+ fashion! Otherwise, it's a few lines of dialogue that doesn't affect anything beyond that. You have to REALLY go out of your way to get that NG+ thing, and at that point, you've already beaten the game and got a lot out of it.

Oh, that makes more sense...but wait, now I'm confused. So, it does'nt affect the game significantly? It's just a few references? I thought it would be to the level where some story/areas (or whatever is in Undertale) change based on your previous playthroughs.

I don't mind much about New Game+. It's a nice feature. It can be fun.

Originally posted by BMF54123
Yes. That is a thing the game does. It is very much intentional, and just one of the many things that sets the game apart from everything else out there.

You guys are treating this like it's supposed to be Just Another RPG™ and it's not. It is TRYING to be different, to mess with your expectations.

Hey, I don't have any problems with fourth wall breaks as long they're done in a good way. Perspective (the DigiPen video game) is a good example, plus it's one of my favorite games. It also tries to mess with your expectations, probably not in the same way that Undertale does, but still. P.T. also does that, and it's also a good game.

Originally posted by BMF54123
If you really have a problem with this, delete all the save and configuration files and start over. Contrary to popular belief, the game doesn't modify your registry or drop secret cookies in your boot sector or anything.

Do you have to delete the files in order to stop the references? Would've been nice to have an option for that, but I guess if it's only that problem it doesn't matter too much.

...I've never played Undertale and I'm trying to understand how the game works. I think I might be doing it wrong.
Peardian

  
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Posted on 10-24-15 10:25:45 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by RanAS
Do you have to delete the files in order to stop the references? Would've been nice to have an option for that, but I guess if it's only that problem it doesn't matter too much.

...I've never played Undertale and I'm trying to understand how the game works. I think I might be doing it wrong.

Well, the thing is, that sort of mechanic is supposed to be kinda hidden, and it factors in to how the game toys with expectations. Depending on how you play the game, some people don't ever notice it or even encounter it. They even tie it into the story to some degree, though I won't say how.

If you're really curious as to how the game works, I recommend just going and trying it.



Also, we have an Undertale thread now, in case anyone wants to continue talking about Undertale's mechanics and stuff.
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Posted on 02-15-17 03:20:56 AM Link | Quote
Hope I'm not overstepping bounds or anything, since I am adding new stuff (i think?) to the discussion:

Pokemon games (or most of them) aren't fun.
I find them to be way too tedious, which is the main reason I have yet to complete one.

MineCraft 1.9 "the Combat Update" actually brings some very welcome changes to the game play, including the weapon cooldowns, excluding some very extreme PvE circumstances that you kinda have to be careless to get yourself in. I don't think they've impacted me much, as being somewhat of a pussy, I don't get up close and personal with mobs and try to spam-click them. I also hated PVP because of the spam-clicking. I'm glad it's gone.

MineCraft is not "ruined" every update.

MineCraft Beta 1.7.3 is NOT the holy grail of all MineCraft releases. I had some experiences with it, and all I'd say maybe was alright is terrain generation. Overall, the newer mechanics are more refined, and the new blocks are quite welcome. I also never really hated the hunger bar, it's not that huge of a deal except in the first few days, primarily. (especially now you can create auto-farms that a single full production run will most likely last you the rest of your natural life, considerably longer than you will play on that world, or likely MineCraft, for that matter) Anyways, I didn't enjoy 1.7.3 all that much. I only played it because a friend was only able to play that version on his computer. I hated it. Not just because of having less blocks, that I could ignore. But in general, the gameplay, and some glitches, SUCKED...

Sorry most of these are MineCraft, I've invested a lot of time/interest in that game, so I have a lot of opinions about it.
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Posted on 02-16-17 09:15:57 PM Link | Quote
This typically goes against my credo of not judging a game by its graphics, but I have one exception.

I could not, and still to this day cannot, get into Diddy Kong Racing in the slightest. The whole thing looks WAY too childish to my tastes and, I'm sure it's a good game, but I just can't get by the fact that I'm expecting Barney the Dinosaur to end up being a secret racer or something.

Though if you want me to hate something for its gameplay, I ragequit the Mario Kart series after, in Super Mario Kart, I had played a perfect race and, right when I was just about to cross the finish line, I got passed by two drivers. Third place with absolutely NO recourse after not having made a single mistake. Needless to say, I raged pretty hard on that one and have no desire to ever play Mario Kart again, mostly because it's no fun to me if you're only allowed to win if the computer so chooses to lose. That's not fun, that's just stupid.
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