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11-20-17 09:15:30 AM

Jul - SM64 Hacking - Toad's Tool 64 v0.6S Release (Bug reports go here) New poll - New thread - New reply
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Celux

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Posted on 03-24-14 08:42:03 AM (last edited by Celux at 04-14-14 12:52:28 PM) Link | Quote
VL-Tone kindly gave me the source for TT64 recently, so with his help I've been working on this update. Most of the changes are intended to make TT64 more compatible with imported levels than it was previously.

Bug reports and suggestions may be posted in this thread.

Download v0.6.2S: https://www.mediafire.com/?9712q0cms901nvr
Mac: https://www.mediafire.com/?9rdnblj57opbl43



Version 0.6.2S:
*Shift-clicking the first star will toggle all acts
*Slight speed increase by disabling compression and increasing memory
*Fixed exporting textures

Version 0.6.1S:
*Fixed texture coordinate errors
*Fixed 'getProp' errors

Version 0.6S:
*All polygons in imported levels will be drawn, activating the collision map is no longer necessary
*End Cake Picture can be edited
*Allowed editing of up to 4 areas per level
*Updated many object labels
*Checksum and header are always skipped
*Increased sky sphere size to fit extended levels
*Fixed texture errors caused by earlier importer versions
*Modified color picker for background
*Fixed Mario shadow size calculation
*Can access preferences when no ROM is loaded
*Removed Flatworld Battlefield
*Disabled faulty vertex coloring
*Textures loaded from ROM by default
*Improved visibility on texture editor screen
*Updated many labels for consistency
*Updated splash screen and icon
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Posted on 03-24-14 10:45:43 PM Link | Quote
Pne of the great things about TT64 was its multi-platform support. With only one download link, does that mean no Mac version is being released?
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Posted on 03-25-14 01:27:41 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kenshi
Pne of the great things about TT64 was its multi-platform support. With only one download link, does that mean no Mac version is being released?

You need a mac to compile the mac version. One of the great things about mac.
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Posted on 03-26-14 05:40:37 PM (last edited by Lyskar at 03-26-14 05:50:13 PM) Link | Quote
After the million year drought, I think we can be grateful for there being any version to speak of at all.

Of course, it'd be nice if there was a Mac version, but given we had multiple years of complete lack of anything... yeah...

Also, for Mac people, here's the most updated version: here.
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Posted on 03-26-14 07:43:27 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lyskar
After the million year drought, I think we can be grateful for there being any version to speak of at all.

Of course, it'd be nice if there was a Mac version, but given we had multiple years of complete lack of anything... yeah...

Also, for Mac people, here's the most updated version: here.


True, I can run windows so its not really a complaint. Just as far as I'm aware and from my own personal use with director (I have an older source of TT64) director can publish to many platforms, windows & mac included. I just wasn't aware of the above limitation because on mac it allows to publish to both. Pretty sure a mac release is on the horizon though. Just be on the lookout.

@Celux is this the official thread for bug reports and whatnot? (maybe include it in the title to reflect that or make a new thread if you're going to keep updating this one with the latest release & changes)
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Posted on 03-26-14 11:49:13 PM Link | Quote
Actually the Windows version of Director can compile Mac apps. What it can't do is compile iOS apps (which only applies to Director 12 anyway, v0.6S was compiled with Dir 11.5), those can only be published on a Mac.

That being said, for TT64 it wouldn't be straightforward because the Mac versions of the XTRAs plug-ins that would need to be installed and some config files edited. Also from what I've read publishing a Mac app from the Windows version of Director is a buggy and it's recommended to use a Mac anyway.

And the reality is, the importer doesn't have a Mac version, and the ROM extender doesn't work on most recent Macs because of the lack of intel versions of some XTRAs needed by the extender.

I perfectly understand that Celux has better things to do than to publish a Mac version in this context. If you can forgive me for not taking the time to update TT64 in over 6 years, surely you can forgive him.

I'm still a Mac user and TT64 was indeed created on a Mac, and as a Mac user I can understand that you're disappointed for the lack of an update for your platform of choice, but if someone has to be blamed for abandoning the Mac version, it should be me...

But please let's forget about this and move on. There's a new version of TT64, it's time to celebrate or something!

And congrats again Celux for this release! (Already congratulated him on YT).

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Posted on 03-27-14 12:11:58 AM Link | Quote
Just curious, how big is the codebase? If in the future the source were to be released to the public, how difficult do you think it would be to port this to another language?

Also, hi VL-Tone. It's been a while.
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Posted on 03-27-14 01:35:14 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by stag019
Just curious, how big is the codebase? If in the future the source were to be released to the public, how difficult do you think it would be to port this to another language?

Also, hi VL-Tone. It's been a while.

Adobe's Lingo code is pretty funky, I'm not sure that you'd have much success in porting it.

And yes, this is the thread for bug reports and such. Added to main post.
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Posted on 03-28-14 02:13:51 PM (last edited by Kenshi at 03-28-14 02:16:11 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by VL-Tone
Actually the Windows version of Director can compile Mac apps. What it can't do is compile iOS apps (which only applies to Director 12 anyway, v0.6S was compiled with Dir 11.5), those can only be published on a Mac.

That being said, for TT64 it wouldn't be straightforward because the Mac versions of the XTRAs plug-ins that would need to be installed and some config files edited. Also from what I've read publishing a Mac app from the Windows version of Director is a buggy and it's recommended to use a Mac anyway.

[1] And the reality is, the importer doesn't have a Mac version, and the ROM extender doesn't work on most recent Macs because of the lack of intel versions of some XTRAs needed by the extender.

I perfectly understand that Celux has better things to do than to publish a Mac version in this context. If you can forgive me for not taking the time to update TT64 in over 6 years, surely you can forgive him.

[2] I'm still a Mac user and TT64 was indeed created on a Mac, and as a Mac user I can understand that you're disappointed for the lack of an update for your platform of choice, but if someone has to be blamed for abandoning the Mac version, it should be me...

But please let's forget about this and move on. There's a new version of TT64, it's time to celebrate or something!

And congrats again Celux for this release! (Already congratulated him on YT).




Didn't mean to come off as blaming him or you here, certainly excited at a new release for the SM64 community as a whole.

To address a few things:

1. I'm aware of the importer limitation of windows only, until just recently that I could run windows on my intel mac I pretty much dropped SM64 hacking due to lack of being able to use it. At the latter, I ended up having to use the windows version of the extender and couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, guess that explains it! Thought it was something I was doing wrong.

2. Not disappointed at all, just hoping that being that I have a Mac (and so do you) and Celux (maybe) being dedicated to future revisions of TT64, was hoping it could still be done for both platforms. Where there's a will there's a way.

That said, I don't mean to take away from what you've done Celux, very grateful that we finally got the official .6 release of TT64. For now I'll have to stick to windows only for SM64 hacking but if there's anything I can do to assist in publishing it on the Mac end just PM me and I'll do my best.

Once again thanks a lot and congratulations on the release!
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Posted on 03-28-14 07:49:09 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by stag019
Just curious, how big is the codebase? If in the future the source were to be released to the public, how difficult do you think it would be to port this to another language?

Also, hi VL-Tone. It's been a while.


Hey stag019! Remember back in 2005 when we were discovering all that stuff? Those were the days…(the days when I had an easy job, lots of free time and motivation).

The codebase is messy because I built it as a reverse engineering tool as we were finding stuff, hoping to rewrite it to a cleaner code base. But it got too big and I never did that rewrite. There’s a lot of unused code that I didn’t remove so it looks bigger than it really is. Also because of the way Director works, the structure of it all may not seem obvious and all over the place.

Like I just told Celux in a PM, I’m not totally closed to the idea of open-sourcing it one day, but I would prefer if someone would clean it / organize it a little and maybe add some minimal comments (which are far and few currently).

I thought that the documentation I posted was enough for someone to build a new cleaner open-source editor, but that didn’t happen. I guess that TT64 being “good enough” didn’t help. And also there’s a world of stuff between level definition documentation and actually making an interface to deal with all the quirkiness of the SM64 level format, TT64 already solves most of the problems (not to say there couldn’t be a better interface) so it makes sense that some would like to use it as a starting point instead of rewriting everything.

Originally posted by Celux
Adobe's Lingo code is pretty funky, I'm not sure that you'd have much success in porting it.


I guess I’m biased but I don’t think Lingo in itself is that bad, I think the fishyness comes from my code as a then unexperienced programmer. Also, earlier Director versions didn’t have binary data manipulation functions so I worked around it by doing ugly hacks like manipulating data as hex strings and number arrays.

But the end result is the same, a direct port wouldn’t be easy. The source code could still help someone that is serious about making a SM64 editor though…

Originally posted by Kenshi
Didn't mean to come off as blaming him or you here, certainly excited at a new release for the SM64 community as a whole.

To address a few things:

1. I'm aware of the importer limitation of windows only, until just recently that I could run windows on my intel mac I pretty much dropped SM64 hacking due to lack of being able to use it. At the latter, I ended up having to use the windows version of the extender and couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, guess that explains it! Thought it was something I was doing wrong.

2. Not disappointed at all, just hoping that being that I have a Mac (and so do you) and Celux (maybe) being dedicated to future revisions of TT64, was hoping it could still be done for both platforms. Where there's a will there's a way.

That said, I don't mean to take away from what you've done Celux, very grateful that we finally got the official .6 release of TT64. For now I'll have to stick to windows only for SM64 hacking but if there's anything I can do to assist in publishing it on the Mac end just PM me and I'll do my best.

Once again thanks a lot and congratulations on the release!



I felt bad about my reply to you. After all you were one of the privileged alpha tester for that elusive unfinished v0.6a, and you were also "lucky" to have glanced at an older source code that I sent you by mistake. And lastly you were very kind in wanting to help me with the alpha version. My post felt like I was brushing you aside.

But here's something that will make up for that: I've given permission to Celux to give you the code so you can compile the Mac version. If you need help you can PM me.

Oh well, back to my old habits of making long posts!
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Posted on 03-29-14 08:40:33 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by VL-Tone
Hey stag019! Remember back in 2005 when we were discovering all that stuff? Those were the days…(the days when I had an easy job, lots of free time and motivation).

Those were the days indeed. In fact, I even went back to the archive to look for some random dates:
Your registration date: 06-06-04 12:56 AM
My registration date: 06-10-05 01:44 PM
HyperHacker opened the Mario 64 thread: 06-12-05 04:49 PM
Your post of the Mario 64 geometry: 06-19-05 02:00 PM
First release of any sort of editing tool: 07-02-05 06:31 PM

Originally posted by VL-Tone
The codebase is messy because I built it as a reverse engineering tool as we were finding stuff, hoping to rewrite it to a cleaner code base. But it got too big and I never did that rewrite. There’s a lot of unused code that I didn’t remove so it looks bigger than it really is. Also because of the way Director works, the structure of it all may not seem obvious and all over the place.

Like I just told Celux in a PM, I’m not totally closed to the idea of open-sourcing it one day, but I would prefer if someone would clean it / organize it a little and maybe add some minimal comments (which are far and few currently).

I thought that the documentation I posted was enough for someone to build a new cleaner open-source editor, but that didn’t happen. I guess that TT64 being “good enough” didn’t help. And also there’s a world of stuff between level definition documentation and actually making an interface to deal with all the quirkiness of the SM64 level format, TT64 already solves most of the problems (not to say there couldn’t be a better interface) so it makes sense that some would like to use it as a starting point instead of rewriting everything.


It always seems to me to be the absolute number one reason people don't release source code nowadays. And not necessarily without good reason, because there are a lot of elitist people online nowadays that will make fun of you for sloppy source code. But on that same token, I doubt too many people here are that much of a jerk to really care, and would be more happy just to have a working implementation to work off of. So unless your intend to get (or have, what is your new job?) a job in computer programming, where you wouldn't want an employer to see sloppy code, perhaps you should try releasing it sooner than later?
Originally posted by VL-Tone
Originally posted by Celux
Adobe's Lingo code is pretty funky, I'm not sure that you'd have much success in porting it.
I guess I’m biased but I don’t think Lingo in itself is that bad, I think the fishyness comes from my code as a then unexperienced programmer. Also, earlier Director versions didn’t have binary data manipulation functions so I worked around it by doing ugly hacks like manipulating data as hex strings and number arrays.
This all sounds like stuff you've mentioned before a long time ago, but is a nice rehash beaue of how long it's been.

Originally posted by VL-Tone
But here's something that will make up for that: I've given permission to Celux to give you the code so you can compile the Mac version. If you need help you can PM me.

Sounds fair.
Originally posted by VL-Tone
Oh well, back to my old habits of making long posts!
That was always a good thing.
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Posted on 03-29-14 10:30:25 PM (last edited by VL-Tone at 03-29-14 10:30:51 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by stag019

Those were the days indeed. In fact, I even went back to the archive to look for some random dates:
Your registration date: 06-06-04 12:56 AM
My registration date: 06-10-05 01:44 PM
HyperHacker opened the Mario 64 thread: 06-12-05 04:49 PM
Your post of the Mario 64 geometry: 06-19-05 02:00 PM
First release of any sort of editing tool: 07-02-05 06:31 PM


Nice historical recounting. Damn it's almost 10 years!

I remember someone sent me a list of all public versions of TT64 and their release dates a while ago. Maybe that could be put on a Wiki or something.

Originally posted by stag019

It always seems to me to be the absolute number one reason people don't release source code nowadays. And not necessarily without good reason, because there are a lot of elitist people online nowadays that will make fun of you for sloppy source code. But on that same token, I doubt too many people here are that much of a jerk to really care, and would be more happy just to have a working implementation to work off of. So unless your intend to get (or have, what is your new job?) a job in computer programming, where you wouldn't want an employer to see sloppy code, perhaps you should try releasing it sooner than later?


My current job involves programming in many shapes and forms, but not related to gaming at all. We're a small company and I'm the only "real" programmer there. So it wouldn't cause any problem. I wanted for a while to get a job in the gaming industry, but my current job is paying well enough for my modest needs and game programming was relegated to a hobby, a sideline. I'm planning on publishing an iOS game as an indie dev, but I'm my own boss for this so who cares if I wrote sloppy code 6-9 years ago?

So yeah I don't have any good reason anymore except maybe being still self-conscious about it. And while I felt like the source code wouldn't be of any use since nobody could figure it out and none wanted to use Director, Celux's release proved otherwise.

It's just a short matter of time now until I give my "Ok" but I don't feel like committing tonight.

I would just prefer wait one or two releases from Celux so that all the most important bugs are fixed, though I don't want to transfer the burden on him.

Originally posted by stag019
Originally posted by VL-Tone
I guess I’m biased but I don’t think Lingo in itself is that bad, I think the fishyness comes from my code as a then unexperienced programmer. Also, earlier Director versions didn’t have binary data manipulation functions so I worked around it by doing ugly hacks like manipulating data as hex strings and number arrays.
This all sounds like stuff you've mentioned before a long time ago, but is a nice rehash beaue of how long it's been.


Yeah I feel like I'm repeating myself when I talk about this, but I'm never sure how much people already know. I guess once I do release the code, I won't have to justify myself anymore.
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Posted on 03-30-14 07:20:44 PM Link | Quote
All I know is that I'm grateful for whatever genuine activity-boosting things can happen here. It was getting rather dead, and with that other SMWCentral site competing there wasn't much reason for anyone to go here anymore. I would probably at least attempt to do some coding on the Toad's Tool thing if it were eventually released and the means to work on it relatively feasible to use without spending an arm and a leg on tools...
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Posted on 03-31-14 11:34:02 PM Link | Quote
Can't believe I actually remind my password for this site!

This is great news, thanks VL-Tone and Skelux for keeping this alive, hopefully SM64 Hacking will get renewed interest.

I haven't touched a hex editor or done much programming-wise in the last few years besides a simple Ludum Dare game (VL-Tone, have you ever tried the game compo? It's a good excuse to waste a weekend writing a game ), but from time to time I still check Skelux's channel just to see what he is doing, amazing how much progress has been done.
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Posted on 04-02-14 03:46:40 AM Link | Quote
So some things I've been working on the past coupla days:
1. Cellar Dweller's old newextender. I managed to get it to cross-compile a Windows version from Ubuntu which successfully works in Wine (if it can see the right dll's). Unfortunately, when I booted my old Windows XP to test it out, there was some random dll error. Honestly though, I feel like for such a simple GUI, GTK+ on Windows is a bit overkill. What I'll probably end up doing is maintaining separate GUI C source files for GTK+ for Linux, and WinAPI for Windows. And if someone wants to write a Cocoa file too, be my guest.

I just PMed Cellar Dweller on board2 and emailed him asking for the original source, but if someone else has it somewhere, unmodified, that would be great. I plan on uploading it to github to show all of my changes. Also, I don't understand much about this whole "16 byte boundaries" thing, but I'm assuming, when the time comes, I'm going to need to change "newoffsets_old[]" from tables.c to be evenly divisible by 16?

2. Another thing I just started a few hours ago was the Super Mario 64 coding in C stuff. After a bit of wrestling with the Makefile, I got it running under Wine (too lazy to try to compile gcc). I got it to produce Cheats.ini correctly, but can't really test it because mupen64plus is a pain to use and nemu64 doesn't seem to like my Windows XP box too much. I'll worry more about testing it when I have more time though.

What I'm curious is, though, if you can patch these into the ROM anywhere. What it looks like to me is that the hook is a small bit of MIPS code that jumps to 80400000 in the RAM, which is where your compiled code is placed with the Gameshark codes. Is there any way to make the game load this into the right spot?

3. There still is no three.

4. I tried the newest version in Wine, and while it looks like it works okay, the screen where the level should be displayed never actually shows anything (it actually shows whatever was last there on the screen, like if I moved a window over it and closed it, that window would still look like it was there). Uhh... yeah

I'd really like to maybe try to make a SM64 hack one day, if I ever get the motivation and the time.
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Posted on 04-02-14 11:39:02 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by messiaen
Can't believe I actually remind my password for this site!

This is great news, thanks VL-Tone and Skelux for keeping this alive, hopefully SM64 Hacking will get renewed interest.

I haven't touched a hex editor or done much programming-wise in the last few years besides a simple Ludum Dare game (VL-Tone, have you ever tried the game compo? It's a good excuse to waste a weekend writing a game ), but from time to time I still check Skelux's channel just to see what he is doing, amazing how much progress has been done.


Hi messiaen!

I also hope that this renews interest in SM64 hacking, there's still a lot of stuff that hasn't been completely reverse-engineered or for which there's no tool available to edit the data, like animation sequences used by characters and Mario.

I don't remember hearing/reading about Ludum Dare before, I only recently started to follow the indie dev scene a little, mainly by following other indie devs on Twitter. I knew there was some "game in a week-end" competition but didn't know it was on this scale and several times a year. The nice thing is how you can use whatever tool/language you want.

This Ludum Dare thing looks to be the spark I needed to get me to make an actual playable game from start to end. Thanks for telling me about it!

Originally posted by stag019
So some things I've been working on the past coupla days:
1. Cellar Dweller's old newextender. I managed to get it to cross-compile a Windows version from Ubuntu which successfully works in Wine (if it can see the right dll's). Unfortunately, when I booted my old Windows XP to test it out, there was some random dll error. Honestly though, I feel like for such a simple GUI, GTK+ on Windows is a bit overkill. What I'll probably end up doing is maintaining separate GUI C source files for GTK+ for Linux, and WinAPI for Windows. And if someone wants to write a Cocoa file too, be my guest.


I remember how unorthodox the "ROM extender" thing felt to me when I worked on it. I don't think there was other level editors that required such a procedure. Do you think it was the right decision at the time?

BTW as for the TT64 source code, I'm still thinking about the details on how I'd like it to be released (I need to put some minimal license, for stuff like "don't sell it!") but it will happen sooner than later.
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Posted on 04-03-14 12:55:38 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by stag019
2. Another thing I just started a few hours ago was the Super Mario 64 coding in C stuff. After a bit of wrestling with the Makefile, I got it running under Wine (too lazy to try to compile gcc). I got it to produce Cheats.ini correctly, but can't really test it because mupen64plus is a pain to use and nemu64 doesn't seem to like my Windows XP box too much. I'll worry more about testing it when I have more time though.

What I'm curious is, though, if you can patch these into the ROM anywhere. What it looks like to me is that the hook is a small bit of MIPS code that jumps to 80400000 in the RAM, which is where your compiled code is placed with the Gameshark codes. Is there any way to make the game load this into the right spot?



It would be really be nice if someone would continue the work with the C files, perhaps by decompiling a complex object.

The hook is called from Mario's Behavior, but it can be very easily be called from anywhere else, it depends on what you want to do. When called from beaviors, you have access to the object struct and related funcions.

Level Importer patches some code that copies an entire region of the ROM to extended memory, so it's all a matter of inserting the code in the free area of the ROM. If you are working with a "clean" ROM, however, you will have to write some to code to copy stuff into extended memory (pretty simple, there's a DMA Copy function in the game).

As for the ROM Extender, I think it was the easiest way to work with the ROM. Perhaps Skelux can make TT64 more flexible with the ROM format, that would be helpful to avoid wasting too much space.
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Posted on 04-18-14 07:56:01 AM (last edited by Celux at 04-18-14 07:56:37 AM) Link | Quote
I forgot to mention, 0.6.2 is up now. This fixes the error when attempting to export textures, and also allows the user to shift-click the first star to enable an object for all acts.
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