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04-23-18 11:29:30 PM

Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Star Fox Adventures E3 2002 prototype (5/17/02) New poll - New thread - New reply
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Hugo_Peters

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Posted on 07-19-16 04:15:30 PM Link | Quote
When you hold X + Y + START in the kiosk version on real hardware it displays "No Controller" for the duration you're holding the buttons... Dolphin 5.0 gave me this error when trying it:



Anyone has any clues? Perhaps something debug related can be activated when a second controller is plugged in?
Sails
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Posted on 07-19-16 05:05:42 PM Link | Quote
FWIW, X Y Start acts like a controller disconnect for any Gamecube game, it's how you reset the stick/shoulder button axis's on the fly.
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Posted on 09-01-16 01:52:25 AM (last edited by Treevis121 at 09-01-16 05:45:05 PM) Link | Quote
A bit out of the blue, but the MODELS.bin in the root directory of the kiosk demo is used by Starfox Adventures and contains no DP leftovers; this page on TCRF will need updated. Thank you for updating the page, Divingkataetheweirdo!

If you're curious as to what's inside, it contains models that are found in many places (such as the health eggs, Tricky and his ball, the gems to restore staff power, boost pad, things like that). I somewhat documented what all is inside MODELS.bin here, but there are no pretty pictures to look at.
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Posted on 12-07-16 12:22:35 PM Link | Quote
I hope this isn't too out of the blue or anything - but I'm fairly new on rustedlogic. I've been looking at this thread for the past year now and am amazed what you guys have been able to both discover and accomplish. So, why am I here you ask?

Well, lately I've been home brewing for the N64, and I've noticed that you guys have a model viewer that allows you to see the Dinosaur Planet N64 leftovers. I was wondering if someone on here - anyone for that matter, could upload those model files as a modern usable format like 3ds., obj., or some other similar format, and zip up all the possible models in a file and attach it to this thread. I'd also like to see whatever textures still exist for the DP64, unfortunately to me, it seems there are not many - correct me if I'm wrong.

So far in my home brewing experience, I've been able to draw different colored polys with alpha using the NuSystem, have got controller input working, and have as of yesterday finally drawn textures and polygons using those textures. So, although that may not sound like much right now (even though I've been learning how the system and C programming works for the past couple months), I think I know enough that we could fake a DP rom, such to the extent where we can pan the camera viewing the existing scenes from the game. About moving characters and stuff like that, I'm afraid that's going to take a long time to learn, but it'd be worth it.

Thanks. Hope to hear from you guys soon!
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Posted on 12-07-16 05:43:21 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by MrQuetch
I hope this isn't too out of the blue or anything - but I'm fairly new on rustedlogic. I've been looking at this thread for the past year now and am amazed what you guys have been able to both discover and accomplish. So, why am I here you ask?

Well, lately I've been home brewing for the N64, and I've noticed that you guys have a model viewer that allows you to see the Dinosaur Planet N64 leftovers. I was wondering if someone on here - anyone for that matter, could upload those model files as a modern usable format like 3ds., obj., or some other similar format, and zip up all the possible models in a file and attach it to this thread. I'd also like to see whatever textures still exist for the DP64, unfortunately to me, it seems there are not many - correct me if I'm wrong.

So far in my home brewing experience, I've been able to draw different colored polys with alpha using the NuSystem, have got controller input working, and have as of yesterday finally drawn textures and polygons using those textures. So, although that may not sound like much right now (even though I've been learning how the system and C programming works for the past couple months), I think I know enough that we could fake a DP rom, such to the extent where we can pan the camera viewing the existing scenes from the game. About moving characters and stuff like that, I'm afraid that's going to take a long time to learn, but it'd be worth it.

Thanks. Hope to hear from you guys soon!


I think any effort to re-make/restore the game is quite welcome by the fanbase (:

I've kinda been hoping for the same /:

Sounds fun
and yeah, 3D programming is something else. I'm briefly touched rendering code a few times. (abstracted nicely by libraries/APIs so I don't have to do the really hard stuff (; ) It'd be worth it for you to learn if you're really into it. and good luck!

Honestly, I was starting to worry this thread was dead... I think it's just no one has had anything to say/add... I've also been lurking quite a while. I had nothing to say/show here, so I didn't say it. I still don't, really.
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Posted on 12-08-16 02:31:03 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by ihadtnowegtum
Originally posted by MrQuetch
I hope this isn't too out of the blue or anything - but I'm fairly new on rustedlogic. I've been looking at this thread for the past year now and am amazed what you guys have been able to both discover and accomplish. So, why am I here you ask?

Well, lately I've been home brewing for the N64, and I've noticed that you guys have a model viewer that allows you to see the Dinosaur Planet N64 leftovers. I was wondering if someone on here - anyone for that matter, could upload those model files as a modern usable format like 3ds., obj., or some other similar format, and zip up all the possible models in a file and attach it to this thread. I'd also like to see whatever textures still exist for the DP64, unfortunately to me, it seems there are not many - correct me if I'm wrong.

So far in my home brewing experience, I've been able to draw different colored polys with alpha using the NuSystem, have got controller input working, and have as of yesterday finally drawn textures and polygons using those textures. So, although that may not sound like much right now (even though I've been learning how the system and C programming works for the past couple months), I think I know enough that we could fake a DP rom, such to the extent where we can pan the camera viewing the existing scenes from the game. About moving characters and stuff like that, I'm afraid that's going to take a long time to learn, but it'd be worth it.

Thanks. Hope to hear from you guys soon!


I think any effort to re-make/restore the game is quite welcome by the fanbase (:

I've kinda been hoping for the same /:

Sounds fun
and yeah, 3D programming is something else. I'm briefly touched rendering code a few times. (abstracted nicely by libraries/APIs so I don't have to do the really hard stuff (; ) It'd be worth it for you to learn if you're really into it. and good luck!

Honestly, I was starting to worry this thread was dead... I think it's just no one has had anything to say/add... I've also been lurking quite a while. I had nothing to say/show here, so I didn't say it. I still don't, really.


So, as far as characters and objects in general are concerned (from what I've learned so far), I do know that you have to type-define a structure, and within that structure you can set your variables such as position(x, y, z), health, etc., and then name the structure after that.

For example:
---------------

typedef struct
{
x = 0; //declare pos vars (position)
y = 0;
z = 0;

rotX = 0; //declare rot vars (rotation)
rotY = 0;
rotZ = 0;

isGrounded = false; //whether you've jumped or not

health = 100; //declare important vars
lives = 3;
magic = 100;

scarabs = 0; //declare inventory vars
grubTubs = 0;
binoculars = false;
bouncyBall = false;

havePartner = false; //once you've met either Kyte or Tricky

playerMesh = 0; //0 for Krystal - 1 for Sabre

}playerObj; //name the object, in this case - the player

---------------

I doubt that's how some of the game's code could have looked, but this is purely just an example. Of course, this is one of the more simple examples of how the objects work. We could get really complex and start adding type-definitions of arrays which store the position and rotation instead of declaring each one separate.

For another example:
------------------------

static typedef struct Vec3_p[3]; //declare a global var with a container of 3 for p (position)
static typedef struct Vec3_r[3]; //declare a global var with a container of 3 for r (rotation)

//Vec3 = a vector with 3 values

------------------------

So, that's a bit more complex, but once it's been defined - and since it's static, that means that for any object we've created that has this var, we don't have to declare it again for every single object. All objects will share these 'Vec3_p' and 'Vec3_r' arrays. Honestly, I'm not sure how the variables were set up for DP64, but they must have been similar in some way. If you think about it, at one point or another, all programmers wonder how something was done. A lot of it comes from learning at your own pace, and learning from your mistakes - thus making you a better programmer.

Besides those variables for positions and rotations, it might also be a good idea to learn about matrices. I've looked into matrices a bit, but I still have some more to learn about them. Basically, by using multiple matrices, we could be able to have animated characters and objects.

For (yet again) another example:
-------------------------------------

typedef struct
{
Mtx Head; //define 11 'bones' for a character
Mtx Neck;
Mtx Torso;
Mtx LArm;
Mtx RArm;
Mtx LLeg;
Mtx RLeg;
Mtx LHand;
Mtx RHand;
Mtx LFoot;
Mtx RFoot;
} Mtx; //abbreviation for matrix in N64 programming manual

-------------------------------------

I've still got lots to learn, but maybe this has shown some light on some possibilities. I would like those models and textures though if possible - I cannot seem to see find downloads for anything. Perhaps they aren't even here.
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Posted on 12-08-16 02:37:42 PM Link | Quote
Something else I should have mentioned about the matrices:

Using the functions for translation, position, rotation, and scale in the N64 programming manual, we can apply the defined matrices to these, and tell them how to move in the 3D world. That's where it starts to get fun. The hard part though, is setting up a 'root' matrix, and then having other matrices hooked up to that 'root' matrix. Thus, the animation comes into play.
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Posted on 12-08-16 02:46:06 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by MrQuetch
Something else I should have mentioned about the matrices:

Using the functions for translation, position, rotation, and scale in the N64 programming manual, we can apply the defined matrices to these, and tell them how to move in the 3D world. That's where it starts to get fun. The hard part though, is setting up a 'root' matrix, and then having other matrices hooked up to that 'root' matrix. Thus, the animation comes into play.


I understand the concept of transformation matrices, as well as how to use them, just not their implementation. I tend to rely on libraries and built-ins when I need to use matrices.

So do n64 models exclusively use matrices for animation? That's something that bothered me assuming I could even find/make a krystal model, bones? or very tiny parts bound to matrices?
MrQuetch
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Posted on 12-08-16 06:24:41 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by ihadtnowegtum
Originally posted by MrQuetch
Something else I should have mentioned about the matrices:

Using the functions for translation, position, rotation, and scale in the N64 programming manual, we can apply the defined matrices to these, and tell them how to move in the 3D world. That's where it starts to get fun. The hard part though, is setting up a 'root' matrix, and then having other matrices hooked up to that 'root' matrix. Thus, the animation comes into play.


I understand the concept of transformation matrices, as well as how to use them, just not their implementation. I tend to rely on libraries and built-ins when I need to use matrices.

So do n64 models exclusively use matrices for animation? That's something that bothered me assuming I could even find/make a krystal model, bones? or very tiny parts bound to matrices?


From what I've learned about the N64 and it's programming, you cannot add other libraries or built-ins - you can only use what is already given. Everything is there to completely create a custom N64 game - header files, etc. It's just a matter of learning C after that, and knowing where all functions are located. Knowing the locations of said functions becomes much more efficient and quick to making a rom.

As far as the matrix implementation of the N64 is concerned, I'm afraid I have yet to learn more about how that works myself. In all honesty, I'm grateful that right now I've got models and textures working - which is a big plus! I'm actually an artist, but I've been programming in different languages for several years - so I have a good idea how the process goes. I love creating models, so to be able to see my models on the N64 is super awesome! Now, obviously, the programming is the most challenging part.

If it doesn't bother you as much, you can take a look at this page here:
https://level42.ca/projects/ultra64/Documentation/man/n64man/gsp/gSPMatrix.html

It gives a good explanation on what the matrix is (which we already know), and how it can be used for transformations.

Do you happen to C program at all? If so, maybe you could share some advice about it.
brian151
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Posted on 12-08-16 08:46:13 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by MrQuetch

From what I've learned about the N64 and it's programming, you cannot add other libraries or built-ins - you can only use what is already given. Everything is there to completely create a custom N64 game - header files, etc. It's just a matter of learning C after that, and knowing where all functions are located. Knowing the locations of said functions becomes much more efficient and quick to making a rom.

As far as the matrix implementation of the N64 is concerned, I'm afraid I have yet to learn more about how that works myself. In all honesty, I'm grateful that right now I've got models and textures working - which is a big plus! I'm actually an artist, but I've been programming in different languages for several years - so I have a good idea how the process goes. I love creating models, so to be able to see my models on the N64 is super awesome! Now, obviously, the programming is the most challenging part.

If it doesn't bother you as much, you can take a look at this page here:
https://level42.ca/projects/ultra64/Documentation/man/n64man/gsp/gSPMatrix.html

It gives a good explanation on what the matrix is (which we already know), and how it can be used for transformations.

Do you happen to C program at all? If so, maybe you could share some advice about it.


yeah...

i was an artist, first... school did a number on that, especially highschool. I mainly do 2d graphics programming and file/data parsing right now. cracks me up when people say 3d game design is easy. They'd take that back if they didn't have these engines like Unreal and Unity, i bet!

maybe later, I am borderline interested in programming n64, or at least understanding that process, so as to rev-engineer some games.

nope, i haven't touched any low-level languages all that much. I borderline understand the general concept of Assembly.... sry...
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Posted on 12-18-16 12:25:13 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by ihadtnowegtum
Honestly, I was starting to worry this thread was dead... I think it's just no one has had anything to say/add... I've also been lurking quite a while. I had nothing to say/show here, so I didn't say it. I still don't, really.

That's how it is for me. It seems we may have hit the extent of what was left of Dinosaur Planet in the SFA E3 ISO, as far as audio and visual stuff goes. Music and background soundscapes, some voice clips (some of them having been replaced already), a few select graphics, and some geometry blocks which had been hastily converted to the Gamecube format and then left to rot as the map data layout changed. There doesn't seem to be any of the original object models or textures, them having already been largely remade for the GC/StarFox change (and the old textures that are there seem to be related to Diddy Kong Racing, rather than Dinosaur Planet).

If there are any N64 DP models or textures still there, they haven't been discovered yet.
divingkataetheweirdo

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Posted on 12-18-16 12:57:16 AM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 12-18-16 12:57:26 AM) Link | Quote
That said, this page really needs a lot of work.

I've done some work myself, but I don't have the time to work on this. If someone wants to work along with me on this, I'd be more than happy to help out.

The main page is also missing quite a bit. Some of it is in the to do thingy, but there's more things like regional differences and such that need to be touched on.
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Posted on 12-18-16 01:55:27 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by divingkataetheweirdo
I've done some work myself, but I don't have the time to work on this.

That's sadly the issue. There's 34 pages of potential info that could be added to the proto page but someone (or group of people) has to do the work of sifting through all those pages to figure out what is even viable to add. On top of that, you'd want to someone whose relatively familiar with the game to be doing the work.

To me, the situation really sucks and goes to show that the info should have been added when it was first discovered. Now all we have are notes that are strewn about everywhere. It's like 52 pickup.
brian151
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Posted on 12-18-16 01:10:43 PM Link | Quote
Yep, that's a lot of work...

I could maybe do the sifting, but not any time soon...
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Posted on 12-27-16 01:20:20 PM Link | Quote
It's been awhile... Been busy... I'd love to start discovering DP N64 files! Unfortunately, I'm not sure where to start, nor will I have much time in the future like all of you guys - I've got a consistent job. As far as the N64 programming is concerned, I've got two books on C since this Christmas. If I can just start learning more C now, hopefully things will become much easier.

Maybe if everyone could just sacrifice roughly 10 - 20 minutes a day, maybe we could start getting somewhere. It's amazing just how high quality DP was for an N64 game. I'm just hoping Rare still has the original files - I'm sure they do, they must have them. If they truly care about their work, they will have the N64 remains somewhere at their HQ.
brian151
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Posted on 12-27-16 07:31:31 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by MrQuetch
It's been awhile... Been busy... I'd love to start discovering DP N64 files! Unfortunately, I'm not sure where to start, nor will I have much time in the future like all of you guys - I've got a consistent job. As far as the N64 programming is concerned, I've got two books on C since this Christmas. If I can just start learning more C now, hopefully things will become much easier.

Maybe if everyone could just sacrifice roughly 10 - 20 minutes a day, maybe we could start getting somewhere. It's amazing just how high quality DP was for an N64 game. I'm just hoping Rare still has the original files - I'm sure they do, they must have them. If they truly care about their work, they will have the N64 remains somewhere at their HQ.


I don't think everyone here has free time, either...
I, myself won't much longer, because I'm req- MANDATED/EXPECTED to go to college and get a job.

People just don't think/work that way, even me (usually). I do actually agree with you, though. If you have absolutely NO TIME to do even a little bit of a side task outside of your work/school/'normal life' routine, then you've got some serious issues. work and school should NEVER literally dominate your life. You're little more than a slave when it reaches that point. Or you just don't care about family,friends,hobbies, anymore. I agree, doing it little bit at a time like that is ideal. I don't typically operate by deadlines/timers, though. I operate by completed tasks. Problem is just sorting all this information is SEVERAL tasks, at this point.

As for remnants:
Rare does still have traces of DP at HQ. Be that in actual game files is unknown. It's currently believed/known that their last copy of the cart is either lost or broken. (and regardless, getting them to leak would be like pulling teeth due to the very real fear/threat of legal actions being taken. We're also forgetting M$ owns Rare, now...) The source code, assets, and other presumably filled devcarts are with Nintendo, allegedly (nothing short of bribery, legal shenanigans, buying rights, or by some miracle [a Nintendo guy leaking those] [a petition not only getting enough signers, but being honored by Nintendo]) is going to get that data to us. Their are rumors of collectors possessing carts (and hopefully ROMs, the carts don't last forever), and while this may likely be true, collectors don't usually part with this stuff without a couple G's. They sure aren't inclined to dump/distribute the ROM, either. The marketing/story materials have surfaced, but it's unknown what the current status of these is. Smaller parts of the marketing/story were released online, but it's not a whole lot to go on. What we do know is some parts of DP have survived, especially in the kiosk demo, but this likely does not include characters. Some files have not yet been examined (all attempts at reading them have failed). Some of the tools have vanished off the face of the earth, as have their authors. There's also been more than a few hoaxes of people claiming to have acquired a cart/ROM...

I could try compiling/sorting all the information in this thread into one place/document, but I will NOT maintain the page, that's really not my cup of tea.
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Posted on 12-27-16 08:19:39 PM Link | Quote
skimmed first four pages of stuff and grabbed permalinks...
they have some brief notation as to what each is about

i tried to limit what i marked for later examination to stuff that seemed relevant. I might've skipped a few things, but probably not much...

I'll do 4-5 pages at a time

Once I have a list of links, I'll start making a more proper document/folder to catalogue/sort it.
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Posted on 12-27-16 09:11:33 PM Link | Quote
I do have one of the tools, Kyte's Command, archived on my computer. I can re-upload it somewhere like Google Drive, if you want.
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Posted on 12-27-16 09:14:43 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by divingkataetheweirdo
I do have one of the tools, Kyte's Command, archived on my computer. I can re-upload it somewhere like Google Drive, if you want.


Please do, that's among the missing tools that's quite valuable to these efforts (including those of restoring/remaking the game)

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Posted on 12-27-16 09:59:49 PM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 12-28-16 07:44:10 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by ihadtnowegtum
Originally posted by divingkataetheweirdo
I do have one of the tools, Kyte's Command, archived on my computer. I can re-upload it somewhere like Google Drive, if you want.


Please do, that's among the missing tools that's quite valuable to these efforts (including those of restoring/remaking the game)



Click here to download Kyte's Command 1.1

Useful for extracting resources from Star Fox Adventures.

Also on my computer is gcr 1.0, which is used for extracting files off GameCube disks. Quite important as GC disks usually can't be read by normal disk extraction programs.
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