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09-25-18 01:07:14 PM

Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Star Fox Adventures E3 2002 prototype (5/17/02) New poll - New thread - New reply
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2Tie

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Posted on 10-25-15 03:01:47 PM Link | Quote
the first thing for us to figure out is how textures are assigned to the blocks and models in the first place. :U
2Tie

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Posted on 10-27-15 08:47:08 PM Link | Quote
Sorry for the doublepost, but I suppose I have a small news announcement to make...


I have made a utility to view/listen to the files in TEX.bin and MPEG.bin without having to export/manually split them up! My plan is to keep adding support for the various different files and formats and eventually have an all-in-one viewer for SFA Kiosk and Retail files, but i'm posting up my current progress as i'm quite happy with it so far.

The project was coded from scratch, though the general layout and the texture parsing code are reused from xdaniel's utilities, with some optimization.

I know KCat and HugoPeters were working on similar utilities to this one, but as neither have released a version (or at least one that's still downloadable) I was driven to start work on this.

Download link plus source is here. Please PM me on the forums or IRC if this goes down, and I'll get it right back up.
It only asks for the .bin file, and will grab its .tab file if it's in the same dir. ...I haven't tested what happens if the .tab is missing yet, that should be my next priority...

Current plans are to add in a Block/SFA Level viewer (since i could repurpose more code); possibly a 'viewer' for the sequenced music, or tex0/tex1? I'm open to suggestions :3
2Tie

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Posted on 10-28-15 02:32:40 PM Link | Quote
is TEX.bin and TEX.tab in the same directory, and are these both from the root of the Kiosk disc? Also, does the status bar at the bottom say that it can't load the file?
2Tie

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Posted on 10-28-15 05:54:59 PM (last edited by 2Tie at 10-28-15 05:55:19 PM) Link | Quote
Try using this one, and tell me what the bottom says when TEX.bin fails to load, or if the program outright crashes
2Tie

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Posted on 10-28-15 09:00:08 PM Link | Quote
That would mean the file you're trying to open isn't named "TEX.bin" or "MPEG.bin".. i'm pretty sure capitalization matters, but if these were pulled right off the disc there shouldn't be a problem
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Posted on 10-30-15 09:10:34 PM Link | Quote
Hello, everyone. The thread is pretty long, so excuse me if I'm beating a dead horse, but gilgamesh recently (read: today) introduced me to the prototype.

Replacing start.dol with default.dol (extracting the ISO with GCRebuilder, renaming default.dol to start.dol and copying it over the original, and rebuilding the ISO) causes the game to load a bunch of assets along with a lot verbose debugging code. However, the game crashes when it tries to load and parse tex1.bin, with the message

GXInitTexObj: width too large in "GXTexture.c" on line 512.

I did some digging into the code, and found what was causing it, and I was able to get past this crash. However,
there was another crash, about vertexpositions being wonky in models.

Now, either the assets in this game are corrupted, or they're using a different format than what the .dol is expecting. Do we have evidence that this is the case? If we can fix the issue, whether by fixing the .dol or the assets themselves, we might be able to figure out what default.dol actually does.
2Tie

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Posted on 10-30-15 09:19:58 PM (last edited by 2Tie at 10-30-15 09:20:18 PM) Link | Quote
Did someone say vertex positions being wonky?


(not my screenshot)

but yeah, I think Hugo Peters was working on getting default.dol working instead of the regular one a couple years ago, to (presumably) no avail. Hugo's seemed to have dissappeared lately, which is a shame since all his stuff on MEGA has been taken down...
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Posted on 10-30-15 09:23:17 PM Link | Quote
Yeah, that'd do it! A shame Hugo's not around much.

Do you know if that model is *supposed* to look like that, or is that the product of a faulty model viewer? I thought the main reason it was crashing on models was because I prevented the program from loading in textures (thus making it reference textures that don't exist), but if the models actually look like that, there's a deeper issue here. e_e
2Tie

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Posted on 10-30-15 09:29:36 PM Link | Quote
back when that screenshot was released, we assumed the viewer had bugs or the format for *some* models were different/we didn't fully understand it. Though, a few models (like the mushroom, question mark, and ball) had been pulled and viewed fine with that tool.

that being said, would it make any sense for some models to be fine, but others corrupted? xdaniel didn't talk much about progress on the models by that point, so I don't know if any of the others had issues... but if the file can't be loaded by the executable, then maybe something's wrong with it...

I wouldn't decisively blame the file though, at least until we can prove it.
Gamma
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Posted on 10-30-15 09:40:12 PM Link | Quote
From what you're telling me, there are a couple of different possibilities:

1) The models that the viewer butchered are using a variant of the format the viewable ones use. Model formats tend have different textureformats for different purposes. They'll always include vertex data, but they can include UVs for textures, colors, etc. Perhaps the model viewer doesn't account for these differences, causing the random wiring of polygons.

2) The models that can't be viewed properly are from an older, pre-GameCube-optimization format. They likely batch converted the models from N64 standards to GC standards, so it's possible that they skipped over the unused models, though not very likely. In that case, it might be that default.dol is using one or the other format for textures and models, thus causing the crashes since the data is getting isn't in the right format, whether it's the N64 one or the GC one.

If some models can be viewed while others can't, that suggests to me more strongly that option 1 is the right answer. That tends to be the case for viewers if they only account for one case (vertex data) rather than other cases (vertex data + UV data, vertex data + color data, etc). Though, if that's the case, it doesn't solve our issue of why default.dol is crashing.

On a slightly different note, I noticed that default.dol would print out warnings saying it couldn't find the audio files starfox.poo/pro/sir/sdi. starfoxm and starfoxs exist, but no starfox. To get rid of these I just copied starfoxm's files and renamed them. This caused the .dol to load data from them. Not sure what it might do, but maybe it'll help us down the road.
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Posted on 10-30-15 09:48:02 PM Link | Quote
apparently those missing files are in a different folder:
http://jul.rustedlogic.net/thread.php?pid=424516#424516

Regarding those files and musyx:
http://www.vg-resource.com/thread-24558-post-540028.html#pid540028
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Posted on 10-30-15 09:55:06 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Gamma
1) The models that the viewer butchered are using a variant of the format the viewable ones use. Model formats tend have different textureformats for different purposes. They'll always include vertex data, but they can include UVs for textures, colors, etc. Perhaps the model viewer doesn't account for these differences, causing the random wiring of polygons.

This, as far as I can remember. Vertex formats on the GCN are apparently (relatively) freely configurable, kinda like in modern OpenGL with VBOs and such. Only a certain number of formats can be defined at once (8?), and this model data / the game / the demo of the game (or however to put it) doesn't always have the same format in the same slot, plus IIRC the formats aren't actually defined inside the files we have. Maybe it's hardcoded in the .dol(s), I don't know. Anyway, one model might expect format slot 0 to be [vertex position][texture coords][color][normal], while another expects the same slot to be [vertex position][color][texture coords] or somesuch.

I believe that's why I got certain models to render more or less properly, while others appear quite messed up. I can't remember if there were any other major issues (I assume there were), but the vertex format stuff is the one thing that still sticks out in my head.
Gamma
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Posted on 10-30-15 10:01:53 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by xdaniel

This, as far as I can remember. Vertex formats on the GCN are apparently (relatively) freely configurable, kinda like in modern OpenGL with VBOs and such. Only a certain number of formats can be defined at once (8?), and this model data / the game / the demo of the game (or however to put it) doesn't always have the same format in the same slot, plus IIRC the formats aren't actually defined inside the files we have. Maybe it's hardcoded in the .dol(s), I don't know. Anyway, one model might expect format slot 0 to be [vertex position][texture coords][color][normal], while another expects the same slot to be [vertex position][color][texture coords] or somesuch.

I believe that's why I got certain models to render more or less properly, while others appear quite messed up. I can't remember if there were any other major issues (I assume there were), but the vertex format stuff is the one thing that still sticks out in my head.



That's what complicates making model viewers for TWW and Luigi's Mansion. You have to account for multiple formats for the same kind of data.

If the formats themselves are stored in the .dol, that could be an issue. I suppose at this point we should be asking why the textures are giving invalid widths. Are there any irregularities in the textures, like with the models? It could be that the models are causing the game to crash because there are no textures to apply to them.
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Posted on 10-30-15 10:34:50 PM (last edited by xdaniel at 10-30-15 10:36:39 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Gamma
That's what complicates making model viewers for TWW and Luigi's Mansion. You have to account for multiple formats for the same kind of data.

If the formats themselves are stored in the .dol, that could be an issue. I suppose at this point we should be asking why the textures are giving invalid widths. Are there any irregularities in the textures, like with the models? It could be that the models are causing the game to crash because there are no textures to apply to them.

Mind you, you probably should take my memories here with a grain of salt, mostly because it's been a while, but also because, I have to admit, I was working on this kinda half-heartedly anyway. As I haven't played nor liked SFA all that much, I didn't look as deeply into the files and formats as I would've done, or tried to, for something else that I do like a lot, be it Zelda or more recently Disgaea 4 and other NIS games. The main allure was the possibility of some Dinosaur Planet leftovers, which I was looking forward to during the late N64 days.

(Edit: Also, the files were all a bit of a mess, and it's hard to compare any results you might get in a viewer to how it's supposed to look, because who knows what exact model you're working with, and from what stage of development it might be.)

So, the vertex formats might be defined in the model file(s), they just weren't readily apparent to me back then, so I didn't dig deeper. I also didn't look into textures beyond what I did back then, which was mainly whatever file had the Diddy Kong Racing-ish images.
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Posted on 11-03-15 04:08:56 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by xdaniel
Only a certain number of formats can be defined at once (8?), and this model data / the game / the demo of the game (or however to put it) doesn't always have the same format in the same slot, plus IIRC the formats aren't actually defined inside the files we have. Maybe it's hardcoded in the .dol(s), I don't know. Anyway, one model might expect format slot 0 to be [vertex position][texture coords][color][normal], while another expects the same slot to be [vertex position][color][texture coords] or somesuch.

Actually from what I can tell, the model does include information on the configuration of the data. Part of the model data has an array of 68-byte blocks. These blocks are materials, and contain flags that determine if normals, colors, or texcoords exist, as well as how many texcoords, and some other information. The model also has what works like an execute buffer. It contains opcodes for selecting materials, configuring the vertex arrays, drawing the individual data streams, and setting up bone joints.

The model ripper here:
http://www.starfox-online.net/forums/topic/12160-adventures-model-ripper-update-v041/
works for SFA, and as far as I can tell, the model format in these older files are similar, if not the same. The source for it is there with it, https://www.dropbox.com/l/iIZrVCLPpnghYhYU7cIatt?.
2Tie

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Posted on 12-02-15 01:33:29 PM Link | Quote
New version of my utility here, added some interface tweaks suggested to me, and can load (but not properly play) soundbank files (MUSIC, AMBIENT, SFX).
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Posted on 12-09-15 02:43:32 PM Link | Quote
the artist formerly known as KarrunaNiara here.

didn't expect this thread to still be picking up steam. really appreciate all the work and dedication you guys are putting into exploring this prototype.

still not heavily savvy on the whole data-focused aspects myself, but i can give comment on visual stuff like maps and models, as well as sound stuff. i'll try to give feedback where necessary, basically. still trying to settle myself back into the thread after a long time.

any questions about DP or the SFA proto i can answer at my DP tumblrshrine @fyeahdinosaurplanet. anyhow, bless you all for your work, and glad to be back here again.
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Posted on 05-18-16 10:15:14 PM (last edited by antidote at 05-18-16 10:18:42 PM) Link | Quote
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone was still interested in the audio and music files? If so my programming buddy has spent the last couple weeks working on our ground up re-implementation of MusyX, and just today he's had a breakthrough on the midi format (SON).

If you're interested check it out!
https://github.com/AxioDL/amuse

It's still pretty early, and it's not confirmed to work on windows out of the box yet (we're primarily mac/linux developers) but we should have a release ready soon!
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Posted on 05-22-16 01:14:44 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by antidote
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone was still interested in the audio and music files? If so my programming buddy has spent the last couple weeks working on our ground up re-implementation of MusyX, and just today he's had a breakthrough on the midi format (SON).

If you're interested check it out!
https://github.com/AxioDL/amuse

It's still pretty early, and it's not confirmed to work on windows out of the box yet (we're primarily mac/linux developers) but we should have a release ready soon!

I vaguely recall Metroid Prime having some of these in a midi folder (might be wrong, don't have the iso on hand to check). I'm curious to know what those files contained.
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Posted on 06-06-16 11:49:38 PM (last edited by antidote at 06-06-16 11:51:03 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Mammal
Originally posted by antidote
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone was still interested in the audio and music files? If so my programming buddy has spent the last couple weeks working on our ground up re-implementation of MusyX, and just today he's had a breakthrough on the midi format (SON).

If you're interested check it out!
https://github.com/AxioDL/amuse

It's still pretty early, and it's not confirmed to work on windows out of the box yet (we're primarily mac/linux developers) but we should have a release ready soon!

I vaguely recall Metroid Prime having some of these in a midi folder (might be wrong, don't have the iso on hand to check). I'm curious to know what those files contained.

That's actually part of the reason Amuse came about: to aid in our efforts to reverse engineer and reimplement the MP1 engine.

MP1 and 2 use MusyX, currently Amuse is near feature parity with the original API. The only thing that's really missing is environmental acoustics and the listeners.

Retro did something kind of novel, they used SON (the midi format) to handle the ship SFX, such as the jets articulating, and the low rumble of the engine itself.

EDIT:
What you're thinking of is MidiData.pak
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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Star Fox Adventures E3 2002 prototype (5/17/02) New poll - New thread - New reply




Rusted Logic

Acmlmboard - commit 5d36857 [2018-03-03]
©2000-2018 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Inuyasha, et al.

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