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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Classic Mortal Kombat New poll - New thread - New reply
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Torentsu
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Posted on 04-14-11 04:37:37 AM Link | Quote
I've played a few more times and have still never seen Kintaro use his kick animation in MK2. As a side note Goro never uses a kick in MK1 (at least as far as I've seen). He has one in MK1 so it might have been created but never used. I doubt they dug out the old MK1 Goro model and made a new kick animation just for MK Trilogy. Clever eye on the whole Raiden arm thing. Wonder why they never coded in Raiden's arms.

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Rick
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Posted on 04-14-11 06:19:35 PM Link | Quote
For Raiden's arms, I think it's just they made a programming goof and forgot to set the arm sprites to the proper value. I'm almost certain that Raiden's arm sprites are in the game data.

You're right about Goro's kicking sprite too! I forgot all about that.

Another thing too. I know that this is a hack, which gives this less credibility, but have you played the Ultimate Mortal Kombat Trilogy hack? Kabal_MK ported over the MK1 version of Shang Tsung with some tweaks, but the strange thing to me is that Tsung has some of his own sprites for uppercutting and roundhouse kicking! What has me on the fence is that for some of MK1 Shang Tsung's basic attacks in that hack, he just "morphs" into other characters. However others, there's some full-on sprites for him that if they're hacked in, they're done really well. o.O

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Abystus
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Posted on 04-14-11 10:06:26 PM (last edited by Abystus at 04-14-11 07:08 PM) Link | Quote
Kintaro's kick used to be in MK2 as I remember seeing a picture of it in an old Gamepro (that I can't seem to find scans of online). I think it was removed from the game (in an early revision) along with Baraka's blade spin. Apparently it was listed as a cheap move and removed from the normal fight routine. I am sure the sprite is still there, however because programmers are lazy . Most of his animations including his kick can be found at The Mortal Kombat Warehouse and are listed under the MK2 section. I would assume these animations have a slim possibility of existence outside the arcade version, however they could still be there. If they are it will be our job to re-enable the move in his fighting routine if the code was ported with the exclusion intact.
Torentsu
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Posted on 04-14-11 10:45:38 PM Link | Quote
Abystus, do you know of anyway to look through a MAME rom for sprite data? Something like Tile Molester but for MAME roms? The MK games all lack ye olde Capcom sprite dump.

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Abystus
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Posted on 04-15-11 12:00:45 AM Link | Quote
I am unsure on that one but my guess would be no. Many people request codes that remove layers in mame so they can record certain animations or to get complete sprites of backgrounds. As far as i know (not really a sprite guy myself) there isn't a way to view them through mame without some sort of modification via code to remove layers. It would be hard to implement I think due to each game running on a completely different processor with different locations where sprites are stored rom wise. I did however a long time ago find an application that could look at the image files that go along with some of these arcade roms, but it was not in any way affiliated with the mame project and was not user friendly at all.
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Posted on 04-15-11 12:09:28 AM Link | Quote
MAME has a built-in tile viewer, though I have a feeling it may not work with the MK games (Midway liked to use weird hardware, so the sprites may not even be tile-based).

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Torentsu
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Posted on 04-15-11 02:15:37 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Waffle Ryebread
MAME has a built-in tile viewer, though I have a feeling it may not work with the MK games (Midway liked to use weird hardware, so the sprites may not even be tile-based).


Especially being that they used digitized characters, it just seems like it would make things work differently. They may not have wanted to split the sprites up in the rom.

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Rick
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Posted on 04-15-11 02:24:28 AM Link | Quote
I'm sure they still had to at least do something to arrange the sprites into tilemaps and palettes. They did have both the male and female ninja template (Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Reptile, Smoke, Noob, Kitana, Mileena, Jade) shot in red, and then the different characters were split up accordingly and manually given different palettes.

Great way to save space! You technically have eleven characters and reuse two of the specific tilemaps repeatedly!

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Torentsu
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Posted on 04-15-11 02:28:47 AM Link | Quote
We might also do well to check the multiple early revisions of each MK that is available on MAME. If those unused sprites were still in they'd probably be in the earlier revisions.

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Rick
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Posted on 04-15-11 02:36:47 AM Link | Quote
The earliest revision that MAME has is version 1.4. I also wanna say that it was the first version they released. I heard it was technically unfinished since they were trying to rush it out the door to compete with Super Street Fighter II, I think, and bugs were rampant!

So! If we can figure out a way to actually look at the tiles, then I'll take a look in the 1.4 ROM.

Also, fun fact! Johnny Cage's pants, when they were digitized, actually said "OTOMIX" on them. What is Otomix? It's a sportswear company! They did, however, edit the logo out to avoid lawsuits and not promote the company without their permission.

However!



They forgot to take it off this sprite. Derp. :specialed:

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Torentsu
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Posted on 04-15-11 03:10:51 AM Link | Quote
Actually now that I think about it this revision was just now leaked onto the internet. I myself don't have it but you might could google down the roms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blBXw1jH81Y

The MK Community has already been hard at work looking for differences.

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Posted on 04-15-11 03:42:55 AM (last edited by Abystus at 04-15-11 01:05 AM) Link | Quote
Well what do ya know...



So mystery solved. Kintaro's kick is in revision 1.1 (View Video). In the video (8 seconds in) you will see Kintaro start the kick animation which is then cancelled by Shang Tsung's constant punching. Now it just comes down to does it exist in later revisions...
Torentsu
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Posted on 04-15-11 04:04:29 AM Link | Quote
http://mkw.mortalkombatonline.com/mk2/kintaro/sprites/kick/04.png

Look at this sprite from MK Warehouse. It looks to me like Kintaro is using a different leg than in that sprite. It could just be cause that's a mid sprite but could there be two kick sprites out there?

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Abystus
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Posted on 04-15-11 04:08:57 AM (last edited by Abystus at 04-15-11 01:10 AM) Link | Quote
No they have the complete sprite set (Kick Seen Above). You just needed to kick on the "See More" link on the initial character sprite page.
Rick
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Posted on 04-15-11 04:42:06 AM Link | Quote
As soon as I get access to the cheat files in MAMEUI 0.142, I'll be able to really slop down a big list of differences/go on a big hunt. What I really need for sure is an infinite time code, but an infinite health code wouldn't hurt either for farting around on 1P more thoroughly.

For some reason I can't access the cheats in that version and it's pissing me off.

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Torentsu
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Posted on 04-15-11 03:46:22 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Abystus
No they have the complete sprite set (Kick Seen Above). You just needed to kick on the "See More" link on the initial character sprite page.


Ah I didn't see that. Whats the problem with your MAME Rick?

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Rick
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Posted on 04-16-11 12:23:59 AM Link | Quote
It doesn't even bring up the cheat menu even though I have cheats enabled. Not sure what the hell's up with it, unfortunately. =/

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Torentsu
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Posted on 04-16-11 12:37:12 AM Link | Quote
The cheat engine on some newer versions of MAME are bugged. Make sure your XML collection is unzipped correctly and pointing in the right directory. If those don't work you might have to try another version of MAME. For hacking an older version using the TXT based cheat engine might be better as those versions allow good ole changed or not variable searching (which to my knowledge you cant do in newer MAME's). There's also the ability to map cheats to buttons.

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Rick
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Posted on 04-16-11 01:19:07 AM Link | Quote
It's totally bugged because the cheat menu on the main menu (when you hit the tab key) is totally not there. Unselectable no matter what. I even have "Enable Game Cheats" checked off and it still does nothing.

I dunno, should I just try regular MAME or something?

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Torentsu
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Posted on 04-16-11 01:28:00 AM Link | Quote
Command line MAME supposedly works better but unfortunately using it isn't my foray. You might just get an earlier version of MAMEUI. I'm not sure which version the Tile viewer started with. I use a build dated May 27, 2010 and I don't seem to have it. Do MAME Cheats work with other games on your version, or do they not show up for anything?

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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Classic Mortal Kombat New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

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line 439 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 439 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 439 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 450 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 469 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 469 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 469 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 469 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 470 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 480 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 489 column 105 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 500 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 500 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 500 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 500 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 511 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 528 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 528 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 528 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 528 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 529 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 539 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 554 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 554 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 554 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 554 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 555 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 574 column 477 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 582 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 582 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 582 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 582 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 593 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 610 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 610 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 610 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 610 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 611 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 621 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 628 column 235 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 636 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 636 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 636 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 636 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 647 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 662 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 662 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 662 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 662 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 663 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 673 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 682 column 376 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 690 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 690 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 690 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 690 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 701 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 726 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 731 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 711 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 203 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 233 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 259 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 285 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 311 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 337 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 365 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 393 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 419 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 455 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 485 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 516 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 544 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 570 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 598 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 626 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 652 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 678 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 706 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 298 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md