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11-13-18 02:41:50 AM

Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Classic Mortal Kombat New poll - New thread - New reply
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Rick
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Posted on 04-03-11 08:38:17 PM (last edited by Rick at 04-03-11 08:38 PM) Link | Quote
So, instead of just tying up the Random Topics of Debate thread with random blah-blah-blah of MK2, I figured I'd stick it here, along with various notes that I've noted in the investigation of playing as Jade, Smoke, Noob Saibot, Kintaro, and Shao Khan in various platforms.

There's been primarily three different platforms I've been investigating. Arcade, SNES, and Genesis. Each seems a little different when it comes to their unplayables. I haven't tested out the Arcade version too much. However, SNES and Genesis have gotten quite a fair share lately of investigation, mostly because it's easier for me to do mutliple save states and access them again quickly whenever the game freezes (which it's completely prone to doing).

The original discussion is here

I'll post specific move tests later per console. I will say that the Genesis version has the most "complete" bosses and hidden characters of the three consoles. With a three-button layout, so long as you don't hold back and press "A" or release low kick until the end of the match after pressing it, you should have little to no problems beating the game with Jade, Smoke, or Noob Saibot. Jade is actually the most complete out of any of the characters. Just by accessing her with a character modifier, you have access to her projectile invincibility and her fan throw! The ground fan throw is her only special move though. She can't do the fan throw in mid-air either.

There are also, what seem to be, unused punching and kicking animations for Kintaro in the Genesis version at least! If you hold back, he will go into his punching animation. If you rapidly tap back, you'll see a partial kicking animation! I have never seen Kintaro do a punch or a kick when the CPU controls him (at least not that I can recall). All he seems to do is fireball, teleport stomp, uppercut, do his jump thing, and taunt. There have been hacks in which hackers have made him playable with all the moves, but I always figured they were imported from something, especially the kicks.

Anyhow, if you wanna fart around with these codes in the SNES and Genesis versions, here are the PAR codes you can choose from:

Mortal Kombat II (SNES)

Player 1 is...
7E2EF80C - Kintaro
7E2EF80D - Shao Khan
7E2EF80E - Smoke
7E2EF80F - Noob Saibot
7E2EF810 - Jade

Mortal Kombat II (Genesis)

Player 1 is...
FFAB87:0C - Kintaro
FFAB87:0D - Shao Khan
FFAB87:0E - Smoke
FFAB87:0F - Noob Saibot
FFAB87:10 - Jade
Torentsu
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Posted on 04-04-11 02:08:42 AM (last edited by Torentsu at 04-04-11 02:11 AM) Link | Quote
Since the default MAME XML cheat database has a character mod for UMK3 but doesn't finish out the array here are the numbers for those characters. Add these to the XML file for UMK3 using notepad under the player select codes, and then rezip it.

Edit the forum won't display the MAME code info so you'll just have to see how the above character's cheat data is structured and use it as a template with these values.

Human Smoke 16
Noob Saibot 17
Motaro 18
Shao Kahn 19
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Posted on 04-04-11 03:14:49 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Torentsu
Since the default MAME XML cheat database has a character mod for UMK3 but doesn't finish out the array here are the numbers for those characters. Add these to the XML file for UMK3 using notepad under the player select codes, and then rezip it.

Edit the forum won't display the MAME code info so you'll just have to see how the above character's cheat data is structured and use it as a template with these values.

Human Smoke 16
Noob Saibot 17
Motaro 18
Shao Kahn 19

It allows most HTML tags, so you should escape it or use [code].

There's no real FAQ on this for now, though, sorry. You're welcome to ask if you have any further issues.
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Posted on 04-04-11 03:35:40 AM Link | Quote
If you're trying to post an XML block, just replacing all instances of < with &lt; should do.
Rick
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Posted on 04-04-11 12:34:40 PM Link | Quote
I've already added them into my cheat thing for both Player 1 and Player 2. I'll find a place to stick the file up on and put it up for download. I dunno though, ever since I found out that Motaro's differences are minor between MK3 and UMK3, it's really kind of killed my ambition to investigate it further.

MK2 however, is still piquing my curiosity, especially with Kintaro's punching/kicking animations possibly going unused.
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Posted on 04-04-11 01:19:50 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Rick
I've already added them into my cheat thing for both Player 1 and Player 2. I'll find a place to stick the file up on and put it up for download. I dunno though, ever since I found out that Motaro's differences are minor between MK3 and UMK3, it's really kind of killed my ambition to investigate it further.

MK2 however, is still piquing my curiosity, especially with Kintaro's punching/kicking animations possibly going unused.



Its very possible that the kick animation in MK2 was unused. Kintaro to my knowledge never uses his kick attack in MK2 but he has one that is used by the CPU and player can use in Mortal Kombat Trilogy. MK Trilogy has several attacks that were unused in earlier MK games. For example, MK1 Kano has a previously unused Spin attack, Baraka has a blade twirl and Goro has a fist spin smash attack. Quite odd that all the unused attacks are spin related.
Rick
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Posted on 04-04-11 02:12:45 PM (last edited by Rick at 04-04-11 02:14 PM) Link | Quote
You know what, that is kinda funny that they're all spin attacks. I can understand Goro's being unused because honestly, it makes him look really silly in those sprites and less menacing. It would be as if Michael Myers from Halloween decided to go romp around in a clown outfit. Baraka's I remember they took out because that move gave him too much of an advantage. Didn't know about Kano's though. What I'd like to find out is if those graphics are still in the appropriate ROMs.

I'm going to consider the kicking and punching animations unused for now, and I'll try and get a rip of it at least for the Genesis version. Do you know if anyone's been able to get the sprites uncompressed in any of the MK games for the arcade? I could dive in and notice anything unused immediately and put it up on the wiki.

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Posted on 04-04-11 04:17:25 PM (last edited by GoldS at 04-04-11 04:18 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Rick
You know what, that is kinda funny that they're all spin attacks. I can understand Goro's being unused because honestly, it makes him look really silly in those sprites and less menacing. It would be as if Michael Myers from Halloween decided to go romp around in a clown outfit. Baraka's I remember they took out because that move gave him too much of an advantage. Didn't know about Kano's though. What I'd like to find out is if those graphics are still in the appropriate ROMs.



I wish I could forget that out. I have no idea what compression MK uses, or where the graphics are stored. It doesn't help that there's no tile viewer for those games in MAME.
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Posted on 04-05-11 02:29:23 AM Link | Quote
The MAME Debugger might be able to provide a hint. You can enable it in the properties menu on newer MAME builds. Often the memory descriptions or just how a section is operating in RAM can give you a hint as to what data is where.
Rick
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Posted on 04-06-11 02:26:08 AM (last edited by Rick at 04-06-11 02:27 AM) Link | Quote
Here's Kintaro's Genesis moveset, to date, with a three-button controller. I have his punch and kick moves snapped, but I don't have a good way of ripping them quite yet because I don't think I can work in layers in Kega like I can with SNES9x. So, yes! Here goes. I will use italics to indicate game freezes.

If you find any further situations than what I've been testing, let me know and I will add them.

Kintaro (Genesis)

D-Pad Only:
Forward: Walk forward normally.
Backward: Move backwards. Punching animation.
Up: Jump up. Throwing animation.
Down: Hold for uppercut animation. Release to freeze the game.

Tap Forward: Faces you while moving forward.
Tap Backward: Kicking animation. Usually shows one frame, may show both if pressed just right.
Back, Forward: Game Freeze

Forward Jump: Jumps forward, taunt animation.
Backward Jump: Jumps backward, block animation.

Buttons
A Button: Speeds up fighting stance, but makes Kintaro stuck. Hit him to fix.
B Button: Knock back attack (kick?). Slip and fall animation. Release button to freeze game.
C Button: Knock back attack. Win pose animation.
Start: Block. Getting up/stagger back animation.

Forward + A: Uppercut! Strange flinch/fall animation.
Backward + A: Kintaro turns invisible. Freezes.

Forward + B: Same as B Button.
Backward + B: Staggering animation, makes Kintaro stuck. Hit to fix, but releasing B freezes the game anyway, so...

Forward + C: Same as C Button.
Backward + C: Freezes.

All crouching or jumping attacks freeze the game
Down + Start: Low Block. Being punched animation. Freezes if you release down, but if you are hit and release both buttons, the game won't freeze!

Close Quarters
Mostly game freezes for attacks. This has not been entirely tested yet.

Miscellaneous
When an opponent jumps over Kintaro when controlled by a human player, he will go into an endless falling down loop until hit.
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Posted on 04-06-11 01:00:59 PM Link | Quote
Have you tried pitting him against a CPU opponent to see if you still have the same freeze effect from when the CPU inevitably tries to throw you? Its also interesting that Kintaro has that same speed up/glitch freeze animation problem. UMK3 Motaro will do the same thing if you press the right button. It must be something about how the bosses are programmed or where their commands point to in the game's data. As stated earlier it might be feasible to make them workable if you could tie the commands to the commands CPU Motaro or Kintaro or whatever boss calls on.
Rick
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Posted on 04-06-11 03:04:58 PM Link | Quote
I know it's possible to make them workable with heavy modifying. I have a Genesis MK2 hack where all the characters are playable, and an SNES hack which makes Jade, Smoke, and Noob Saibot playable (though I haven't investigated trying to play around on that ROM because the hack doesn't work proper in my version of SNES9x that I have, only in ZSNES).

Also, I'm trying out the CPU trying to throw you thing. It doesn't actually have them throw you. Instead, you just get trapped in a corner where the CPU keeps throwing low punches at you to the point where it's nearly inescapable. This is just for the Genesis version, however.

The arcade version seems to be more like the SNES version, where any idling will lead to the D-Pad freezing the game if moved forward or backward. Kintaro also has a slight bit of glitchiness in his graphics when played by a human for some reason.
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Posted on 04-06-11 10:41:36 PM (last edited by Torentsu at 04-06-11 11:02 PM) Link | Quote
Is the SNES hack you have the one that has the Killer Instinct Advertisement in it? The one with the KI ad doesn't work very well. Any time you lose as or beat Noob Saibot the game ends. It also locks up a lot when playing as Jade. Several you tube videos show a better version but I can't ever find it.
Rick
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Posted on 04-06-11 11:17:09 PM Link | Quote
I don't recall a Killer Instinct ad in it.

It's the hack that's on romhacking.net. It's the only Mortal Kombat II SNES hack, so...yeah.

If you know where I can find a better one, then by all means let me know and I'll check that out.
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Posted on 04-06-11 11:24:40 PM Link | Quote
Yeah there's another hack with a Bizzare KI ad in it and Shao Kahn is playable.
Rick
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Posted on 04-09-11 03:03:20 PM Link | Quote
Yeah, I just tried it out and well, yeah, you're right. It is pretty buggy and crappy. It's kinda neat to have Shao Khan in there, but he's just one step above barely playable.

I almost feel like there'd be a way to make playable bosses by mapping specific actions to specific buttons and animations, as kind of a quick and dirty way to do it, but then again, I don't know much about programming.

I've also been toying around again in Mortal Kombat 1 for SNES. I'll keep people in the know if I find anything.
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Posted on 04-09-11 03:32:34 PM Link | Quote
The only way I see bosses being playable is if someone finds a move modifier for P1 or P2 (basically an address where the value is read to execute the corresponding move and then set to 0 after execution). Once that is found then you can use the found move values with some modification in the controller input section to set corresponding values to that address based on what button you pushed.

Using this method the normal input would be disabled basically assigning your key presses to move values if that makes sense. You would also have to find values that control their walking (forward/back), jump, and duck as even though bosses usually cant jump straight up or duck they are prone to freeze from user input during those times as well (you could most likely just NOP the jump and duck controller input however).
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Posted on 04-09-11 07:58:56 PM Link | Quote
Did you ever have any further progress with MK2 Smoke's smoke effect Abystus?
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Posted on 04-09-11 10:21:06 PM Link | Quote
Well after posting my findings I never really sat down with it again. The most I could get to work was that any computer controlled opponent would smoke. There is a check for computer control and character selected along with one other check that I could never locate. I would assume that there is another variable being set as another rudimentary check against computer control, however it may have taken considerably longer to get a working code to play as smoke which is why I opted just to release what I had at that point.

If anyone would like to give it a shot go right ahead as it would complete my original code to play as smoke. Outside of that if someone stumbles on a move modifier for this game then things could become interesting (just like my move modifier for KI Arcade/SNES hacked in 2006).
Rick
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Posted on 04-13-11 01:36:00 PM (last edited by Rick at 04-13-11 01:39 PM) Link | Quote
Well hopefully something can be found there. Good luck on that! I still have to wonder though if there's some kind of trigger for it anyway. Maybe it activates during Liu Kang's fireball or Raiden's electroshock fatality because the player is not actually in control at that time. Just some more speculation on that one I guess.

Also, I figured out a way to have Kintaro punch you at will. Stand about sweep distance and throw projectiles. Whammo! Right in the face. Since that rules out his punch being unused, his kick has now properly taken over that category! What we need now, seriously, is a way to rip said animation.

Also, as far as unused stuff goes, I believe Baraka's blade spin animation is still unused, but if we're talking about more unused stuff as well, I can think of Jax having an air projectile animation (if we're relying on information that went unused in MK2 but was later used in Mortal Kombat Trilogy), and what about Kung Lao's really bizarro Raiden torpedo?

Lastly, due to an oversight, Raiden's arm sprites are unused! What do I mean by that? Do Jax's arm rip fatality (BL, BL, BL, BL, LP at sweep distance) on Raiden and whose arms shows up? Kung Lao's! Stupid theory of the day: Kung Lao is Raiden! Serious theory: Programmer's derp. It actually went unnoticed in the SNES and Genesis ports too!
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