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10-17-18 10:57:43 PM
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Jul - General Chat - Jul Pub
  
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StapleButter
Posts: 499/500
I feel like people going "omg tables are bad" are a bit like saying that "hammers are bad" because people use screws more than nails (don't quote me on that, it's a silly example).

my point is that what matters is how adapted your tool is to what you want to achieve, not what the popular opinion is.

if you're going to use heavy CSS to recreate a table, might as well just use a table, it's simpler and works! with the added benefit that oversized contents don't turn the whole thing into a total fucking trainwreck. (I know the lame old div/float tricks are vulnerable to this, but eh. flexbox probably isn't.)

(also: the idea of "making a completely different layout with CSS only" is nice but it has its inherent limits, no matter how flexible you make it)
Jamie
Posts: 42/44
Rules shouldn't be "rules", they should be "general guidelines" instead.
Rambly
Posts: 2053/2058
divs are situationally a little more useful I feel like (there's times when using a table feels like taking a machete to hedges). Like, when you just want a stylized little box like I've got here in my layout, I feel like divs are still the best at accomplishing that goal.

If you're actually trying to display something in a table format, though, with individual rows? Why not use tables. I get the importance of keeping content and style separate, and you can accomplish some gorgeous stuff with just CSS alone, but sometimes it gets pointless. Like, phpBB using divs for everything despite being displayed in a tabular format -- like, why. Forums are tabular. They'll literally be more coherent without CSS if you use tables. It's not like phpBB's HTML is very well-organized, either...

I guess I understand why these web design principles exist and they can lead to better flexibility and code that scans better, but I don't think they necessarily should be followed dogmatically as hard rules. I generally hate it when rules are taught as unquestionable things you should just follow. I feel like design rules in general are (or should be) meant to achieve certain goals, not to create arbitrary restrictions.
Jamie
Posts: 39/44
Why in the world would someone use a div tag over a table tag other than to needlessly "change" the standard of web design? Just out of curiosity.
Peardian
Posts: 7421/7421
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Also I'll be weird and say that I don't really care if someone uses tables? The modern "design ethos" seems to be framework/auto-generated layouts, and any time I open one of those up in an inspector they're far worse than tables ever were -- often times 20 or so <div>s deep, or even further. Especially in cases where tables would have made perfect sense...

I don't know much about automated web code, but I've been taught to keep content and style separate when building pages. The CSS Zen Garden is a pretty good example of the kinds of benefits this can bring. Accessibility software such as screen readers also comes to mind.
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
Originally posted by Peardian
I have a confession. My layout uses HTML tables to position everything.

I once tried converting it to divs and CSS and stuff, but I couldn't get it to look exactly the same. I haven't bothered to try again.

Also I'll be weird and say that I don't really care if someone uses tables? The modern "design ethos" seems to be framework/auto-generated layouts, and any time I open one of those up in an inspector they're far worse than tables ever were -- often times 20 or so <div>s deep, or even further. Especially in cases where tables would have made perfect sense...
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
Originally posted by Tarale
There's never enough time for anything ughhhhhhhh

Increasingly more true every year.


CSS is smelly bum poo

I'm pretty sure the canonical version is this:

CSS
IS
AWESOME
RanAS
Posts: 475/481
CSS is a pain to work with sometimes so I don't blame you (example: vertical-align only working when it wants to).

I still need to learn how display: grid; works. I first saw it while it was still unsupported by most browsers so I never bothered with it. It sounds interesting but it also sounds complicated, I'm having a headache just by looking at that page.

Originally posted by Jamie
I really need to learn how to use CSS properly.

I learned the basics of CSS by just messing with layouts, and then later on by using this tutorial. It's usually just trial and error (or in the case of CSS, it's mostly error) until you get the gist of things.
Peardian
Posts: 7416/7421
I have a confession. My layout uses HTML tables to position everything.

I once tried converting it to divs and CSS and stuff, but I couldn't get it to look exactly the same. I haven't bothered to try again.
Tarale
Posts: 1860/1866
There's never enough time for anything ughhhhhhhh

CSS is smelly bum poo
Jamie
Posts: 30/44
I really need to learn how to use CSS properly. Thanks for fixing (i.e. removing), it should give me either a push in the right direction or common sense not to have a layout until I can actually use CSS properly (and have a relatively plain post compared to other users as a result, but that just signifes myself as a person more than anything)...

I want to clean my bedroom but I have zero motivation to do it, it just ends up in a mess a day later...
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
Interesting layout issue in this thread, but it should be fixed now...

In other news, oof. The weekends are never long enough, and there's never enough time to get everything done...
Jamie
Posts: 29/44
glad you had a good time!

meanwhile I went out with irl friends, twice, which was really nice
RanAS
Posts: 472/481
Today I went to an orchestra with my father. They played songs from Georg Philipp Telemann, Christoph Graupner and Marc-Antoine Charpentier, all of them from the Baroque period. It was really cool to see it live, and some of the songs were so good it sent me goosebumps. The place itself also looked very well preserved, almost as if we still were in the 17th century for a moment.

It's not my favorite music genre, but I still enjoyed it a lot.
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
Thank god it's Friday, finally. Ugh.
RanAS
Posts: 470/481
Originally posted by StapleButter
also, another sort of dream that I've had a few times, but all ages ago (like the false-awakening-after-nightmare kind)

where my dream vision is abnormally dark, or static-y, or weird in some way that feels oppressing

and no matter what I do (like, turning on more lights, etc), it doesn't change

anyone had that sort of dream too?

i've never had a false awakening after a nightmare, thankfully. most of the times i've had a nightmare i wake up immediatelly afterwards.

though i guess the lightning tends to be a bit weird on some of my dreams. sometimes they completely lack shadows, and light seems to come from undefined spots in the scenery.

on a few other dreams, there's been places that had such a weird dark atmosphere to them that no matter how i tried to light up the place it still remained dark, but that usually only happens in more unsettling areas which i don't want to be in or get close to, like, the type of place where you feel something might lurk in the shadows and you really don't want to be there
StapleButter
Posts: 492/500
Originally posted by Xkeeper
I'm lucky in that I've only had one or two dreams ever that involved a false awakening, and the only one I can remember wasn't bad, just weird.

I've had some false awakening dreams, but the more usual (and recurring) one is the one where I wake up after a nightmare... in dream, run to the light switch, and then actually wake up. weird.

another case of nested dream/false awakening, that is different and that I had posted at Kafuka

Originally posted by StapleButter but not here
some interesting bits of dream I remember


posting on Jul. there's a (new?) theme that is mainly yellow and red. I'm on newreply.php, reading the thread history. there's a vertical slider of sorts of the left of the posts, with two cursors, apparently you can move them to select posts to quote, or something, it's weird.

but I anger the users for some reason.


I work in some library that has comic books. or something like that.

eventually the place is flooded by a large stream of water. we all struggle to save the comic books from this.


then, nested dream occurence. I dream of waking up and starting to post about that dream here. there's also a bit that's a recall of the Jul scene, but more like a rollback so I can avoid fucking up and angering people?. it no longer has the yellow/red theme and is back to its usual night theme.



also, another sort of dream that I've had a few times, but all ages ago (like the false-awakening-after-nightmare kind)

where my dream vision is abnormally dark, or static-y, or weird in some way that feels oppressing

and no matter what I do (like, turning on more lights, etc), it doesn't change

anyone had that sort of dream too?
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
Hang in there. Hopefully you feel better soon.


Surreal dreamscapes

Yeah, putting these sorts of things into some explorable medium has been something I've wanted to do, too, but like most dreams I don't think it'll ever be real...
BatElite
Posts: 174/179
Today is a bad brain day. I haven't felt this inferior in...whenever the last time was. Months ago at least. I can't remember.
Rambly
Posts: 2022/2058
Originally posted by Peardian
You could probably fill a video game with the kind of surreal locations I've dreamed of.

There's a lot of cool scenery I remember from my dreams that I did plan to put in a video game at one point...

Of course, at this point, I'll never make it, but... it's still something I would have liked to find some way to share with people once upon a time...
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Jul - General Chat - Jul Pub



Rusted Logic

Acmlmboard - commit 5d36857 [2018-03-03]
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