Register - Login
Views: 90547214
Main - Memberlist - Active users - Calendar - Wiki - IRC Chat - Online users
Ranks - Rules/FAQ - Stats - Latest Posts - Color Chart - Smilies
04-20-18 10:56:17 AM
0 users currently in News. | 1 guest

Jul - News - There was yet another school shooting
  
Login Info: Username: Password:
Reply: Mood avatar list:

















 
Options: - -

Thread history
UserPost
eifie
Posts: 82/88
Originally posted by eifie
theres no good policy for something like that except to work to prevent tragedies like that ahead of time

i want to clarify with this real quick, i think a better wording would have been "theres no better policy except for to work to prevent tragedies like that." i do still think its important that students understand the risks and possibilities involved in evacuations and lockdowns, i just dont think they need to hear recording of innocent peoples deaths to get the message across. what im really struggling with here is the lack of anyone taking the threats issued seriously. like on a socially conscious level, dont we owe it to ourselves to investigate into this more? i dont see how thats at all acceptable. its only a matter of time before the next shooting.

our school systems are frankly a failure on all counts. it is true, lack of counseling, therapy, and truly understanding where these issues stem from systemically as well as guns being far too easy to obtain are whats causing this outbreak in the US. commonly children are treated like objects from the moment of their birth to the moment they turn 18, only to be swiftly kicked out on their asses told that the only way they are allowed to exist is if they bend to fit someone else's mold.

im just over here like
Gabu
Posts: 9796/9806
Originally posted by Mirzaba
Sorry for going a bit off base but I feel like it's all related to the topic.


And it definitely is. I mean our formative years are within a school setting; for what it's worth it'd be great to have the proper funding for direct and indirect nurturing, like psychologists, counselors... art programs... etc., etc.

If nothing else, it'd be working on one factor, but also working on a bunch of other, at the most semi-related factors as well.
eifie
Posts: 79/88
i completely agree about the encouragement issue, empathy is learned and america is facing an epidemic of selfishness at the root of all its major issues rn imo.

also sorry for not posting as much lately in general on this board, ive had a bit going on irl lately leaving me emotionally worn out as you can see.
Mirzaba
Posts: 26/26
Originally posted by eifie
Originally posted by Xkeeper
The problem with situations like that is it can often be even more dangerous to evacuate than it is to just remain in place.

yea, honestly theres no good policy for something like that except to work to prevent tragedies like that ahead of time. when i was in school, lockdown policies were in place that told teachers and students to stay in their room and hide under desks, in corners, behind cabinets, etc. with increased shootings the US has a new lockdown policy called "alice" which tells teachers to take students and evacuate the building.

spoilered because this may be upsetting, actual gun violence/death warning:
Spoiler:
just for an example of how fucked up it is that we have to be teaching these things to children in the first place: my little sister told me at their school when they learned about the new policy, they played an audio recording to the class. it was a recording of a room of students who used the old lockdown policy and it was the teacher telling kids that they couldnt leave the room, to hide under desks, and then the door being knocked down, followed by the teacher pleading the gunman not to shoot them before he finally does. this has been weighing on my mind, the fact that schools thinks kids should have to hear this to understand the gravity of how bad the school shooting situations are here but will not address threats issued. the "we dont negotiate with terrorists" sentiment runs deep. nobody wants to take responsibility so instead we afflict the responsibility upon children. this is traumatizing. america is terrifying.


edit: changed wording to clarify more what i meant and how i feel about this sry

um actually what the heck? That's atrocious and shouldn't be allowed. Fear mongering mondo-film should be banned from schools. But if anyone tries im guessing the whole anti-censorship crowd would shoot that notion down. This issue truly must have a radical (in the non-political sense) solution in which the root of the problem, including this type of extreme exposure, should be resolved. School shooters aren't born, but are shaped by their conditions. Schools need love and encouragement, and should put the welfare of the students above all. Even beyond school shootings, a school which tries to help bullies or troubled students, rather than ignore or harshly punish them can heal deep wounds. Sorry for going a bit off base but I feel like it's all related to the topic.
eifie
Posts: 78/88
Originally posted by Xkeeper
The problem with situations like that is it can often be even more dangerous to evacuate than it is to just remain in place.

yea, honestly theres no good policy for something like that except to work to prevent tragedies like that ahead of time. when i was in school, lockdown policies were in place that told teachers and students to stay in their room and hide under desks, in corners, behind cabinets, etc. with increased shootings the US has a new lockdown policy called "alice" which tells teachers to take students and evacuate the building.

spoilered because this may be upsetting, actual gun violence/death warning:
Spoiler:
just for an example of how fucked up it is that we have to be teaching these things to children in the first place: my little sister told me at their school when they learned about the new policy, they played an audio recording to the class. it was a recording of a room of students who used the old lockdown policy and it was the teacher telling kids that they couldnt leave the room, to hide under desks, and then the door being knocked down, followed by the teacher pleading the gunman not to shoot them before he finally does. this has been weighing on my mind, the fact that schools thinks kids should have to hear this to understand the gravity of how bad the school shooting situations are here but will not address threats issued. the "we dont negotiate with terrorists" sentiment runs deep. nobody wants to take responsibility so instead we afflict the responsibility upon children. this is traumatizing. america is terrifying.


edit: changed wording to clarify more what i meant and how i feel about this sry
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
The problem with situations like that is it can often be even more dangerous to evacuate than it is to just remain in place.
eifie
Posts: 77/88
Originally posted by Xkeeper
A lot of places already have on-campus cops. I know my highschool did and that was over 15 years ago.

The problem isn't the gun free zone.


E: To give you an idea, the Vegas shooter was in a hotel full of very armed guards and it still took minutes for anything to be done.

yea this. they had cops on campus but they continued to play the entire situation off. in my opinion kids shouldnt have been in the building at /all/ with a threat like that.
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
A lot of places already have on-campus cops. I know my highschool did and that was over 15 years ago.

The problem isn't the gun free zone.


E: To give you an idea, the Vegas shooter was in a hotel full of very armed guards and it still took minutes for anything to be done.
divingkataetheweirdo
Posts: 804/805
Good god, the non-actions from school administrations is pretty infuriating. If the administrations actually started taking the threats seriously and put in something to counter the gun-free zone status that shooters take advantage of, there might be something done to at least reduce the number of shootings. Even just simply having a dedicated cop on campus helps mitigate it.
eifie
Posts: 69/88
soo there was a threat made to my little brothers school today and nobody took it seriously even though the emails from the ex-student were made earlier in the week. the threats were made in emails and instagram posts where he threatened to shoot up the place, and administration in the school did a bunch of hand waving and told kids the source wasnt credible and that the person was just looking for 15 minutes of fame. 2/3rds of the students went home early and the kid was reportedly arrested. this wont be in the news or anything since "nothing happened" but im terrified to know how poorly my brothers school faculty handled this. ive been talking to him about these issues since he got home.

edit: closest relevant article i could find https://www.indystar.com/story/news/education/2018/02/20/indiana-schools-see-rush-reported-gun-threats-after-florida-mass-shooting/350499002/
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
cool

loving the new normal
Gabu
Posts: 9789/9806
Kinda late on the whole thing on the role mental illness has, but Cracked has an astute article on the subject.
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
The intel comes from the rampant NSA spying and the fact that most people willingly tell Facebook pretty much everything about their lives.
Tarale
Posts: 1599/1676
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Originally posted by Tarale
Superior tech does not necessarily mean they would destroy any resistance. In the Vietnam war, the US had vastly superior technology but the guerrilla tactics of the Viet Cong made things a lot harder. And pretty much every war ever since has been similar.

The problem is that we now have fully remotely operated murdering devices — drones. Guerilla warfare isn't going to matter when some bean counter in some office is shooting a missile at you from across the country.

They still need the intel. They'll probably just combine it with some machine learning shit and let the drones go nuts, I think I read a wacky Daniel Suarez book about that shit…
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
Originally posted by Tarale
Superior tech does not necessarily mean they would destroy any resistance. In the Vietnam war, the US had vastly superior technology but the guerrilla tactics of the Viet Cong made things a lot harder. And pretty much every war ever since has been similar.

The problem is that we now have fully remotely operated murdering devices — drones. Guerilla warfare isn't going to matter when some bean counter in some office is shooting a missile at you from across the country.
Gabu
Posts: 9787/9806
Honestly though, I'd see that scenario playing out more like Germany's invasion of Poland. Most history books will gloss over the fact that the Polish people turned their own basements into weapon factories, built tanks out of scrap, and made Molotov catapults.

And regardless of that, they were still very much steamrolled after six weeks.

I don't know what very-late 1930's Poland was like with gun control, and I admire Poland's scrappiness, and it's a different time now, yet unless some amazing teamwork and strategy is employed, I can only imagine the same overall steamrolling scenario playing out.
Tarale
Posts: 1591/1676
Originally posted by Amberetto
Forensic psychiatrists have determined that 3-5% of mass shootings are committed by people who are diagnosed with a mental illness. And murdering out of bigotry, revenge, ideology, etc is not a sign of mental illness which is typically why these shootings happen. If in fact they did have to do with mental illness, then why are 98% of mass shooters male when mental illness affects people regardless of their gender? It's pretty clear that it's a culture of toxic masculinity- I mean how many times does a guy murder a girl because she rejected him? Are we gonna start referring to the KKK as mentally ill? A lot of people are just assholes and people don't seem to get that.

Thank you so much for being much more specific and clear about what I was trying to say.

Originally posted by Amberetto
and also the government has tanks, nukes, drones, etc; I'm sure their rifles would stand a chance though.

Superior tech does not necessarily mean they would destroy any resistance. In the Vietnam war, the US had vastly superior technology but the guerrilla tactics of the Viet Cong made things a lot harder. And pretty much every war ever since has been similar.
Amberetto
Posts: 4/7
Forensic psychiatrists have determined that 3-5% of mass shootings are committed by people who are diagnosed with a mental illness. And murdering out of bigotry, revenge, ideology, etc is not a sign of mental illness which is typically why these shootings happen. If in fact they did have to do with mental illness, then why are 98% of mass shooters male when mental illness affects people regardless of their gender? It's pretty clear that it's a culture of toxic masculinity- I mean how many times does a guy murder a girl because she rejected him? Are we gonna start referring to the KKK as mentally ill? A lot of people are just assholes and people don't seem to get that.

Anyway it's hilarious that the 2nd amendment people think they need their guns in case the government goes tyrannical when it's clear that they're in favor of that right now under the current regime and also the government has tanks, nukes, drones, etc; I'm sure their rifles would stand a chance though.
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358
One of the simpler solutions would be to add much harsher regulation to campaign finances and overturn Citizens United v. FEC; that would at least help to defang the NRA's campaign contributions (and via that, legislative control), along with all the other awful lobbyist groups.

The problem is that the people who benefit the most from this kind of garbage are also the people who happen to be in power, so,


What do you propose?

Or rather, what do you propose that actually has a chance of surviving a constitutional challenge?

This is a bit of a loaded question. I am not really an expert in constitutional law (though I would love to hear that you are one) — however, there have been successful attempts to restrict ownership of the worst guns, and those have been allowed to expire. Legislating gun control is not an impossible task, but it is not one that the current administration or its myriad cronies are willing to do.
Kazinsal
Posts: 583/605
The NRA has been lobbying against legislation intended to prevent massacres and hate crimes under the guise of personal freedom, but actually for the purposes of lining their own pockets and propping up an industry that produces tools designed to kill. Their supporters include political advocates for suppression of minorities, supporters of forever wars in developing countries that severely damage those countries' ability to develop, and alt-right "anti-antifa" groups that open carry military-style hardware to counter peaceful demonstrations.

They are an organization that works by spreading terror and misinformation. They should be treated as such.

I am certain no one who values a society not degenerating into conservative authoritarianism would miss them.

e: Also reminder that the NRA supported California implementing gun control when the California branch of the Black Panther Party started arming themselves for self-defence and for defending equal availability to voting.
This is a long thread. Click here to view it.
Jul - News - There was yet another school shooting



Rusted Logic

Acmlmboard - commit 5d36857 [2018-03-03]
©2000-2018 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Inuyasha, et al.

20 database queries.
Query execution time: 0.187207 seconds
Script execution time: 0.011633 seconds
Total render time: 0.198840 seconds
Memory used: 524288