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12-14-17 07:57:07 PM
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Jul - Computers - Pale Moon vs. Firefox
  
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Girlydragon
Posts: 2914/2914
Quantum has annoyed me in the way that a ton of other firefox updates have annoyed me.

The UI changes, and suddenly I have to go through a ton of hoops to make it look like I want it to look again, especially worse this time with the switch to web-extensions which means I have to abandon some ideas for now and switch over to userChrome.css for others.

The speed is definitely nice, and I can appreciate the other changes, but this constant changing of the UI annoys me to no end. I can understand the need for changes, and also that I am most probably in the minority of users that are annoyed by this stuff, but that doesn't really mean that it doesn't annoy me.



I used to have a small little stint with Pale Moon, but that was back when the differences between it and FF was a lot smaller, which made me believe that porting the relevant FF updates over would be simple, but the more they grow apart, the less I was attracted to it.
dotUser
Posts: 2243/2243
I find it ironic that some folks who beat down on Firefox suddenly are backing this, like.. Something feels off about that kind of change. www

I mean, if Firefox has improved, neat. But so many adamantly anti-fx people suddenly changing to support it? Hmmm
Sanqui
Posts: 1588/1594
Originally posted by Lunaria
Is that another fork? :o

Sounds that way, huh? No, it's the real thing!
Lunaria
Posts: 5338/5342
Is that another fork? :o
Sanqui
Posts: 1587/1594
Firefox Quantum is nothing short of amazing.
Zeether
Posts: 165/166
I got Firefox Quantum today and it seems pretty smooth so far
andlabs
Posts: 279/279
[01:10:50] hey chrome fans
[01:10:53] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.platform/4RAQOAMT9PI
[01:11:09] firefox 58 will now let you do that stupid "show all tabs at once' thing by letting you set the minimum width of a tab

(if you use nightly you may want to change the default back to 100 to avoid things sucking)
hydra-calm
Posts: 34/39
I like the idea of Pale Moon, but I don't think the people working on it have the resources to make it a viable alternative (I don't trust that backporting security fixes from FF is good enough, for one thing). Lots of add-ons I need don't have alternatives there either (vimperator doesn't work, ad and request blocking software isn't nearly as capable, etc). I'm definitely sympathetic as far as thinking some aspects of older firefox are way, way more usable and should never have been changed.

For having no intention to reduce choice, Mozilla's definitely doing a great job of it. Webextensions is the only thing I'm seriously worried about though, and most of the basic stuff I use seems to have alternatives ready to go. I don't think the length of time Webextensions has been in development is all that relevant here -- regardless of who's to blame for what, moving before there's at least something approaching feature parity is going to have the same harmful effect. ~the web~ without filtering is an abomination no one should be subjected to. Extension signing and dropping ALSA support is high-handed garbage too, but I guess there's unbranded and apulse to deal with those respectively. Considering the only viable alternative is chromium, all my complaints are futile, though.

Bits of Servo finding their way into Firefox is a positive I forgot.
andlabs
Posts: 278/279
Originally posted by Nin★Collin
And on top of that, Firefox 57, which is pretty much self explanatory.
Uh... no it isn't.

Are you talking about the UI? It's a lot cleaner than Australis, which I also didn't have an issue with, and if you aren't happy about the URL bar being tiny, you can remove the extra space around it by customizing the toolbar. I don't know about the unified URL bar thing that Mozilla is proposing since my Nightlies don't have it, but I'm sure that will be configurable too. Of course, there are people who *want* a fully configurable UI, but that's a different issue entirely, one I won't take since I'm fine with the current UI either way.

Are you talking about WebExtensions? Most of the big extensions have been moved to WebExtensions — unlike the Chrome Extension API, Mozilla actually wants WebExtensions to be as capable as native extensions, except for altering the UI, but see above. Of course, WebExtensions don't *yet* have all the needed functionality, but don't blame Mozilla rushing it for that — the WebExtension system has been in development for two years, if not longer. And there are open, actively discussed bug reports for the other missing functionality, like socket support — so unlike what that FTP plugin author thinks, there is no grand conspiracy to limit what users can do. And some plugins, like AdBlock Plus, actually had Mozilla people working on porting them over! Mozilla even has this page to track the progress on porting lots of major extensions.

Or do you have some other complaint I don't know?

Originally posted by Lunaria
A nice feature for people uses many tabs and like to save tabs between sessions: Palemoon only re-loads tabs once you switch to them.
Firefox has done this for a long while now. I forget if you need to enable it in about:config or if it's in the Preferences UI.

Originally posted by RanAS
I'm currently using Vivaldi by the way, it has its issues sometimes but overall it seems to be improving.
I don't plan on using Vivaldi for the same reason I don't plan on using Discord: there is no reason for it to be proprietary, considering the type of program it is. In fact, I'm willing to wager that it's appeasing Opera fans who don't care about free software in the same way the latter appeases gamers who don't, so call me RMS if you want, but that's where I stand.
RanAS
Posts: 284/291
I've used Firefox in the past, but I'm pretty much done with it. It's because of the much uglier UI which imitates Chrome more than the other Blink-based browsers, the extensions and themes easily falling out of date, and overall I just don't like it anymore.

As for Pale Moon, I currently don't really have anything to say about it. I might try it out in the near future for a bit. I'm currently using Vivaldi by the way, it has its issues sometimes but overall it seems to be improving.
Cuber456
Posts: 750/757
Man, based on everyone’s comments, it all sounds like a crapshoot

1.Take 5 browsers
2.Take 5 of your favorite websites
3.See which websites break the 5 browsers
4.Browser with least problems is your new browser

@2tie
I can say that, for now, Firefox isn’t giving me problems! I’m sure it’ll change at some point.
xdaniel
Posts: 663/673
I actually switched back to Firefox from Pale Moon a few months ago - before learning about Firefox 57, but oh well, we'll see about that one.

I'm not sure what exactly prompted me to do so, but it eliminated a bunch of problems I had with Pale Moon: Various pages not rendering properly (ex. Google Maps, especially while dragging), very high memory usage over time, sometimes browser and/or GPU driver hangs (ex. using Google Street View for a while, like when playing GeoGuessr), etc. Another side effect is being able to watch YouTube and Twitch at 1080p60 now, while with Pale Moon, 720p was the highest I could go.

I don't know the underlying technical reasons for my issues, maybe it was something on my end, maybe with Pale Moon, but from a simple user's perspective... Good riddance to Pale Moon, I guess?
2Tie
Posts: 920/931
Originally posted by Cuber456
Pale Moon is alright. It’s some earlier fork of Firefox iirc. The one issue I had with it was that it had problems with videos on YouTube. Like, it was delayed when trying to stop, start, FF or rewind. Every once in a while, it would straight crap out on the videos. IDK, it’s probably just my own experience vs others so take take that with grain of salt. If you don’t have problems now, you should be ok.

There is also Waterfox which is another fork. And yeah, I’m sure the list could go on from there.


i used to have similar youtube issues with firefox myself, and i think i eventually deduced that it would happen whenever there's an update for firefox downloaded. this hasn't happened (to me) in the past few months, though
Sanqui
Posts: 1579/1594
Originally posted by Lunaria
A nice feature for people uses many tabs and like to save tabs between sessions: Palemoon only re-loads tabs once you switch to them. So upon starting a session (after closing it or if it has crashed) it won't just load everything right away. Something which kinda ended up being a problem for me with firefox several years ago before I switched. :V

There are other neat functions, but yeah, I like it. ~w~

I'm on Firefox (55) and it exhibits this behavior as well.
Cuber456
Posts: 748/757
Pale Moon is alright. It’s some earlier fork of Firefox iirc. The one issue I had with it was that it had problems with videos on YouTube. Like, it was delayed when trying to stop, start, FF or rewind. Every once in a while, it would straight crap out on the videos. IDK, it’s probably just my own experience vs others so take take that with grain of salt. If you don’t have problems now, you should be ok.

There is also Waterfox which is another fork. And yeah, I’m sure the list could go on from there.
Lunaria
Posts: 5333/5342
A nice feature for people uses many tabs and like to save tabs between sessions: Palemoon only re-loads tabs once you switch to them. So upon starting a session (after closing it or if it has crashed) it won't just load everything right away. Something which kinda ended up being a problem for me with firefox several years ago before I switched. :V

There are other neat functions, but yeah, I like it. ~w~
Nin★Collin
Posts: 62/65
I have always been a Firefox user. I loved how fast and reliable it is. Unfortunately I can no longer say that, because it's really slow and bloated now (just like AVG). And on top of that, Firefox 57, which is pretty much self explanatory.

On IRC, I saw Lunaria mention a browser called Pale Moon, and decided to check it out.
It's my new web browser. It's much faster than Firefox, uses the classic "pre-austrilis" GUI, and has HTML5 support. While the latest version doesn't support Windows XP (my most used OS), the last version that does works perfectly fine. Pale Moon starts up using only around 160 MB of RAM, while Firefox can start with over 400 MB.
Jul - Computers - Pale Moon vs. Firefox



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