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06-20-18 06:24:08 PM
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Jul - Computers and Technology - Windows 10 Discussion
  
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RanAS
Posts: 394/441
A computer at work running Windows 10 decided to randomly install an update out of the blue, no prompt, no nothing. That said, things move so slowly there that having one computer updating didn't really make much of a difference. The internet was fast enough that it didn't really take much time to download, it was mostly preparing to download the files and then installing. If that happened in the financial department however, oh boy it would've caused some problems.
rakiru
Posts: 28/31
Yeah, that's a fair point, but you can definitely do that in W7 by clicking the arrow next to shutdown and selecting a different option (iirc, I don't have any pending updates atm). If it straight up asked you, I imagine too many people would just always click "install later" and you'd be back to forced random updates. Although only pushing that on people who haven't updated for a few days would still make the regular case so much better, at least for non-critical updates.

Alternatively, they could get good and make the updates not take 2 goddamn hours. I can do a `pacman -Syu` once a week and it takes like 2 minutes.
StapleButter
Posts: 483/487
Originally posted by rakiru
My Windows 7 install will never pester my about updates, and will just install stuff when I turn it off. You know, that time when I least need my computer and it is free to do whatever it wants.

That works well for desktop computers, less so for laptops. Especially when you want to leave quickly to catch your bus or whatever, and it decides to install updates when you turn it off, forcing you to sit and wait.

Ideally it should ask you whether it's okay to install updates before shutting down or whether you're in a hurry or whatever.
rakiru
Posts: 26/31
While I can understand them trying to stop people disabling updates altogether, or delaying critical security updates for months at a time[1], I hate and cannot agree with how they went about it. My Windows 7 install will never pester my about updates, and will just install stuff when I turn it off. You know, that time when I least need my computer and it is free to do whatever it wants. I can't for the life of me figure out a way to make Windows 10 do that. It also seems to have random settings for every user, because I'll complain about update feature X, and friends A, B, and C will be like "oh yeah, it does that to me too", and friends D, E, and F will be like "that has literally never happened to me even once", but the set of friends that have seen it will be different for every thing I complain about. That "Countdown to goodness" patronising piece of crap is a perfect example: I had something very similar a few months ago, and only 1 other person I mentioned it to had seen it, even though most of them have stock settings and have changed nothing.

I have Windows 10 installed in a VM (for the few games I can't play on Linux - it supports some stuff that Windows 7 doesn't that brings it closer to native performance), and I swear it spends half the time it's on installing updates. I'll boot, wait 10 minutes for everyone else who's playing with me to go get drinks, etc., etc., launch Overwatch, get everyone into a party, spend 5 minutes in a queue, finally get into a game, then 2 minutes later, it'll popup telling me I need to update, stealing focus from the game, and probably causing me to die. I can hit escape to stop it from installing the update right there and then, but it still needs me to manually start the install later (because apparently it makes sense to push updates hard, but no longer automatically download them?!). So anyway, I'll finish playing, click the thing to install (because otherwise I'll shut down without installing it, and it'll just try to force-install-and-reboot next time), then wait literally 1 fucking hour for it to download at dialup speeds on our 100Mb/s connection, and another hour for it to install, before it finally shuts down. Except, oh no, that's not even it done. I then have to launch the VM again, so it can continue installing the update on boot (that thing you would normally do when you need to use your computer), and it proceeds to spend half an hour rebooting half a dozen times to finish updating, all while telling me it's "almost done" or some bullshit. There is no way I could deal with this shit on a computer for daily use where I actually need to get things done, nevermind the mounds of other bullshit it does. Fuck this shitty OS.

[1] So many botnets are composed of Windows machines that hadn't been updated for years, because either the manufacturer or the user disabled updates. At that point, it's not about protecting the user from themselves, but protecting the rest of the internet from all the crap sent out by these machines.
Xenesis
Posts: 2443/2500
Regardless of anything else, if you tell your computer "don't restart until x time", it should bloody well not restart until x time.
Lunaria
Posts: 5484/5575
Yeeeeaaaaaah. This is the type of shit that just makes me unable to understand why people can think windows 10 is even close to a decent OS. An OS should help you operate your computer, not operate on it despite what you want.

It's a shame windows decided to go down this route, since there aren't many alternatives. v.v
Xkeeper
Posts: 23358/23358


fuck this shitty operating system. fuck it forever.


e:

3 days ago:
"ready to update!"
me: let's schedule a time. install updates on the 24th

2 days ago:
me: *gets home* oh hey it... rebooted... and all my stuff is gone.
me: oh, windows updated, and it immediately greets me with another "update available, restart now" dialog. no. fuck you. update in a week

this morning:
"REQUIRED UPDATE!!!! reboot now!!!"
me: no. reboot L A T E R.

now:
"all set for that update we're going to do in the middle of the day! lol!"


i have turned off windows update, disabled the service, deleted a bunch of task scheduler entries, and am about this close to just deleting system files instead
Dorito
Posts: 2988/3025
Originally posted by maple
i was forced to upgrade from windows 7 to 10 once i built a new ryzen machine last april (7 has no (easy) usb3 or official ryzen support) and these days it just feels rather natural to use

i jumped through a few hoops to disable cortana and whatever bits of unwanted fluff and tracking i could find while keeping the system happy and updates working and now everything seems pretty seamless personally

the bash subsystem works ok in a pinch when i want to do python and ruby dev (the latter only for maintaining my mastodon instance) without having to deal with a second OS install or the windows version of those languages

i also do a lot of 1080p60 streaming with OBS capturing windows like Rambly said and i can confirm that it works great too

back when 10 was released i didn't want to upgrade either but since i had no choice i think it's not terrible

yup, 10's surprisingly prety ok and functional for a normal user. really happy with the snapping features and win + tab and ctrl + tab + left/right

wish it wasn't ass with scaling though

edit: though being able to more or less natively ssh into my server to run a quick thing on a screen session, the steps i had to take to get the linux subsystem working were weirdly hidden away
Halian
Posts: 359/457
It pisses me off to no end that, not only is installing Windows 7 on a Kaby Lake machine with USB 3.0 hella difficult, but that they backport spyware “updates” into 7.

Give me back Windows XP or 2000 already.
maple
Posts: 19/153
i was forced to upgrade from windows 7 to 10 once i built a new ryzen machine last april (7 has no (easy) usb3 or official ryzen support) and these days it just feels rather natural to use

i jumped through a few hoops to disable cortana and whatever bits of unwanted fluff and tracking i could find while keeping the system happy and updates working and now everything seems pretty seamless personally

the bash subsystem works ok in a pinch when i want to do python and ruby dev (the latter only for maintaining my mastodon instance) without having to deal with a second OS install or the windows version of those languages

i also do a lot of 1080p60 streaming with OBS capturing windows like Rambly said and i can confirm that it works great too

back when 10 was released i didn't want to upgrade either but since i had no choice i think it's not terrible
Ben_
Posts: 6/12
Issue is that they're going to drop support for Windows 7 in 2 years, and there might not be anything else to switch to but Windows 10, which is not great.

Linux is an attractive alternative, but I have many many games that aren't compatible with it.
Rambly
Posts: 1726/1934
I'm using Windows 10 on my laptop. I had to download some tool to turn off like a bajillion telemetry things, but I've managed to mostly get it to a... usable state. Probably one of the only potential positives is that it's easier to capture windows in OBS on Windows 10... Windows Aero won't let you capture anything, and if you use Windows Classic that has the inverse problem of forcibly capturing everything, including layered windows. It doesn't really matter to me, though since I don't stream much anymore... there's a couple other neat-ish things too, like quick-access power settings stuff, too, and a built-in f.lux type thing. Although for all I know 7's had the former for a while and I just never noticed cuz I wasn't a laptop user

Anyway, I'm still rocking 7 on my desktop... I kinda miss when Microsoft could make OSes that don't, like, actively spite the end-user and felt... cohesive? Stable? Something like that. Blergh.
BMF54123
Posts: 5810/5852
I still think Windows 2000 was the last truly good OS Microsoft released and I miss it like crazy. It was essentially Windows XP without the ugly fluff and with all the power user features readily available.

The only reason I ended up ditching it for XP was because hardware manufacturers stopped supporting it, which never made much sense to me. The driver model was the same, and you could even trick a lot of XP driver packages into installing by modifying their INF files (until the manufacturers caught on, at least).
dotUser
Posts: 2252/2305
Gut the fucker like I did. Make it understand you're in charge, not it.
Xkeeper
Posts: 22771/23358
Having bought a new laptop that had Windows 10 on it:

- The lack of customization really sucks. I want more than just a single goddamn color, and you can't even change inactive title bars. So if you're like me and you have 50 windows open, there's a bunch of blinding white everywhere

- I am really, really tired of not being able to update when I want. I'm sick of taking a nap to find all of my programs closed and my work lost because Windows thinks it knows better than I do.

- I am sick of the patronizing "we're hip now!" language. Rather than "5 updates ready to install" it's "We need your help to kick off some updates! Just a few more steps and we're done!" or "Hi, we've got lots of great new features to get excited about". It reminds me of some over-eager father figure and it sucks

- It's still completely fucked w/r/t the two different paradigms. If I want to change my keyboard repeat rate, now I have to dig through five menus to find the old control panel applet to do it, because the shiny new one won't let me. Half of the shit is spread out.

- The Metro interface is still a disgrace to UX. Whitespace, flat, it's all trash.

- Did you know Chrome is bad? Try Edge. Please. Love us.

- I can't just set what opens with what. Now Windows bundles a few specific file types in the menu, and trying to set those automatically (when I want to) fails and Windows helpfully reports there was a "problem" and resets it to its default.

- Scroll wheels are fucked up somehow. I don't know what they did, but everything either feels sluggish or way too fast.

- The constant reminders that it isn't my computer. "This PC". "Windows is a service". "We'll let you turn this option off for now, but it will turn on again tomorrow." No. Let me do what I fucking want and leave me alone. I feel like I'm using a goddamn "We'll turn off Wifi for a little while, but our stuff that requires it will still have access" iPhone.

- The Start menu sucks now; I don't want "tiles", I want a list like before, without huge letter headings taking up half the space. I can't even add my own programs to it! I can add them as a tile, but not to the list. What the fuck?



I feel like I have to fight the OS at every turn and I honestly miss Windows XP and Windows 7.
divingkataetheweirdo
Posts: 775/812
Not the 3D Painting part, but I did touch on it for a little bit and it seems fine for image editing, but it doesn't feel the same as the old Paint. Still, not bad.
sammyrms1
Posts: 61/116
Has anybody tried the 3D Paint program?
divingkataetheweirdo
Posts: 643/812
Microsoft was really compensating for market share of newer versions of Windows with GWX. That said, I did install it one computer, which runs it OK. Of course, it has ads on the side, but that's something the Server versions take care of.
Joe
Posts: 3258/3302
When I tried uninstalling it, it appeared in the list of available updates afterwards. Hiding it didn't work very well, since it only hid that particular version and Microsoft periodically releases a new version.

Then again, I also ended up wiping the Windows Update cache after my computer got stuck permanently searching for updates, so maybe it was only doing that to me because something was broken.
dotUser
Posts: 2167/2305
There's been several redeployments of the GWX 'helper' in varying forms over time. As long as you manage to miss those updates every time, automatic updates are definitely 'safe'. Though, who knows when they'll start packaging it with EVERY update.
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Jul - Computers and Technology - Windows 10 Discussion



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